Tuesday, May 12, 2009

A question for my fellow Christians

If we are commanded to "test the spirits" (1st John 4:1)...

...then how much more so should we boldly question the motivations of mere men?

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

When you use the term "question" do you mean " . . . . to inquire for understanding" or " . . . . to bring into ridicule or scorn".

Both are proper uses of the term in the English language, but I think only inquiry for understanding promotes godly peace and harmony between humans, allows us to properly discern motivations and rightly divide those with genuine faith from the hucksters and deceivers that greatly infect the Christian community these days.

Bringing anyone into ridicule or scorn under the guise of questioning motivations for the sake of "exposing the corrupted" promotes a rush to judgment without discovery and assessment of all truth. Further, it pushes the true believers into a spirit of condemnation rather than seeking reconciliation and love of the fellow members of humanity.

Perhaps the Apostle Paul said this best of all: "Do not be overcome with evil (a spirit of condemnation), but overcome evil with good (reconciliation and forgiveness)." (Romans 12:21, parenthetical interpretations mine)

Later . . . .
Ol' You-Know-Who

Chris Knight said...

I mean to question men as rigorously as we are to test the spirits. If not more so.

I would even say that it applies to questioning ourselves, as individual believers, and examining whether what we do in this world is for His glory, or for our own.

It means daring to ask aloud whether what we do in the name of Christ is to serve Him and build up His Kingdom, or whether it's actually - whether we will admit to it or not - to endeavor for our own carnal sake.

Anonymous said...

Chris,
Man tries to enslave but Christ has set us free.

So I think you are right that we should challenge others about what they are doing in God's name and why.

Thanks for taking up the cause for Tyler Frost!

Anonymous said...

I see Johnny Robertson doing a lot of such "questioning", and many people questioning themselves because of it.

Perhaps people like him are there to make us question ourselves, seek the Lord in the Scriptures, and become stronger in our faith. He certainly goes beyond most preachers in doing that.

If he is building us up in the "most holy faith" because of his "questioning" he could be doing good for Christ's true church. As such, he should be prayed for, as the Apostle Paul was prayed for, that the passionate fire he brings against the body should be turned to advocate for the Lord and evangelize the world.

This can only be done with diligent prayer, fellowship with those who our Lord loves (all people), and letting the Lord work in those lives.

Heaven will be a grander place when both friends and enemies bend the knee together before our most holy God.

Later . . . .
Ol' You-Know-Who

James L said...

Ol' You-Know-Who do you even watch Johnny Robertson because if you did you would know he doesn't care about anything but himself. No other 'preacher' around here lies or threatens people or is as hateful as he is. In the Answering Church of Christ site he is being asked what proof his own church is New Testment like they brag about and he won't answer. He doesn't know anything about his own church so he can't question others.

Truth said...

I believe people have the right to ask questions. I don’t believe people have the right to do so when they take away others rights to worship without being harassed.

If someone is looking for a “debate” to ask questions there are proper ways to go about doing such.

If someone wants to ask someone else to “debate” where they are asked questions, they can pick up a phone and call or mail a letter requesting a debate. The person being asked to debate has the right to say no.

The person being asked to debate especially has the right to say no if the person being asked to debate sees the debate as unprofitable and sees the people wanting a debate as warped who have told lies and twisted Scriptures and other people’s words.

Chris, I see nothing wrong with you saying what you believe. I see nothing wrong with Johnny Robertson saying what he believes.

There is a big difference in what you are doing and what Johnny does. Johnny has harassed people as they assemble together to worship and at their homes. You haven’t done that Chris. And I want to say Bravo to you Chris for standing up for people’s right to worship and praise our Lord.

Anonymous said...

I don't know Chris what have you done lately to further the kingdom of God and serve Christ. I am merely trying to test your spirit.

Johnny Y.

By the way the comment I made the other day was in reference to you stating that it was ok to sin since Jesus healed on the sabath day.

Truth said...

Johnny Y,

I don’t believe Chris is advocating sin, but is advocating love.

The Bible tells us we are to follow the laws of the land. An abusive parent is granted full custody of their child and that parent says the other parent can never have contact with their child ever again. The parent without custody knows the parent who has custody is doing wrong and the parent without custody goes and kidnaps their child out of their love for them. The parent without custody is breaking the law. I don’t believe the parent without custody is sinning, but is loving their child.

Chris Knight said...

Johnny Y,
I never said it was "ok to sin".

But since when is breaking the "rules" of man tantamount to sinning against God?

Men are not God. Men were never meant to speak with authority equal to that of God. If they dare assume that, then it only proves that they are not of God at all.

Do you know what real Christian leadership is, Johnny Y? It is this: not "leading" at all in the way the world knows it, but rather serving others as Christ served us.

The greatest pastors of congregations that I have ever met have incidentally also been among the most humble individuals that I have had the pleasure of meeting. Not one of them ever suggested in any way that they were "better" than their fellow Christians. And I don't think that any of the ones I refer to would ever threaten or harass others in the name of God. These were people who knew that they lived by the grace of God... and were so overwhelmed by that knowledge that they could not help but love others as He loved us first.

On the dire opposite end of the spectrum there are those who do believe that God has "anointed" or "set" them to be over others, and they never show any guilt or remorse at how they abuse their so-called "authority". These are people who will never admit that they are wrong or apologize... because that would be an admission of error, and consequently would threaten what stake of "power" they think they possess.

Power and control, Johnny Y. They are the absolute last things that we who claim to follow Christ should be led to believe we should want or need. So why should we go after them to begin with?

Anonymous said...

Chris,
God stated that we are to observe the laws of the land. Pray for those in authority over us.
But you still have not answered my question. What have you done lately to further the kingdom of God or serve Christ? I am merely testing your spirit.

Johnny Y.

Calvin said...

Johnny Y, I can't speak for Chris but I think he furthers the kingdom of God and serves Christ just with his blog. He's showing zeal for Christ tempered in love and conviction. Chris is being a missionary with it to those without Christ and he is undoing the bad of people like Tim England and Johnny Robertson. What strikes me most about Chris is that he doesn't care to admit that he's imperfect but that God's grace is enough to overcome weakness.

Chris you can delete this if you want but that's what I believe.

Anonymous said...

I have been a friend to Chris along time. He is a good person and I think it is good that he is against legalism. I agree that Johnny Roberts and Tim England are not the best of people to represent Christians everywhere. Is it my place to say they are not Christians no. That will come in the day of judgement, And I assure you that God will Judge Rightly. But I want to know where Chris stands cause one minute he is proclaiming to be a Christ follower (From the parody commercials on tangle) and the next minute he is saying bad things to others and using foul language. I think that it is great that he is standing up against These two guys. But it is all about how we conduct ourselves in rebuking another. For instance there was a situation where a man was putting down gay people and during the confrontation one of the gay people spit in his face. The man started to yell at him "I want him arrested he assaulted me" but when you look at Christ he took the spitting and beating of sinners for the very ones who he was willing to save. I think that it is ok for Chris to make his stand but if he is a Christ follower then he needs to try to refrain from attacking others to make a point. He needs to do it in Christian love and humility "full of grace and seasoned with salt". I have always been Chris' friend through thick and thin. He has made me to think more of things and as iron sharpens iron I want to edify Chris to build him up as well.

Chris Friend,
Johnny Y.

Gary Ceres said...

I'd comment that actually testing the spirits should include testing mere men. If we believe that the spirit is a real entity (which of course I do), than each man woman and child possesses within him and herself spirit(s) whether of the Lord or of the demonic variety. So the commandment to test the spirits is essentially a commandment to test mere men.

Gary Ceres said...

Johnny Y,

With all due respect you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Jesus did indeed turn the other cheek....but he also overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple. He also stood in front of the adulteress and told the crowd that only he who was without since should cast the first stone. Christ is multi-faceted. In the face of the defense of others, Christ demonstrated time again that aggressiveness in the defense of the just is not a vice.

Tuesday, May 12, 2009

A question for my fellow Christians

If we are commanded to "test the spirits" (1st John 4:1)...

...then how much more so should we boldly question the motivations of mere men?

14 comments:

Anonymous said...

When you use the term "question" do you mean " . . . . to inquire for understanding" or " . . . . to bring into ridicule or scorn".

Both are proper uses of the term in the English language, but I think only inquiry for understanding promotes godly peace and harmony between humans, allows us to properly discern motivations and rightly divide those with genuine faith from the hucksters and deceivers that greatly infect the Christian community these days.

Bringing anyone into ridicule or scorn under the guise of questioning motivations for the sake of "exposing the corrupted" promotes a rush to judgment without discovery and assessment of all truth. Further, it pushes the true believers into a spirit of condemnation rather than seeking reconciliation and love of the fellow members of humanity.

Perhaps the Apostle Paul said this best of all: "Do not be overcome with evil (a spirit of condemnation), but overcome evil with good (reconciliation and forgiveness)." (Romans 12:21, parenthetical interpretations mine)

Later . . . .
Ol' You-Know-Who

Chris Knight said...

I mean to question men as rigorously as we are to test the spirits. If not more so.

I would even say that it applies to questioning ourselves, as individual believers, and examining whether what we do in this world is for His glory, or for our own.

It means daring to ask aloud whether what we do in the name of Christ is to serve Him and build up His Kingdom, or whether it's actually - whether we will admit to it or not - to endeavor for our own carnal sake.

Anonymous said...

Chris,
Man tries to enslave but Christ has set us free.

So I think you are right that we should challenge others about what they are doing in God's name and why.

Thanks for taking up the cause for Tyler Frost!

Anonymous said...

I see Johnny Robertson doing a lot of such "questioning", and many people questioning themselves because of it.

Perhaps people like him are there to make us question ourselves, seek the Lord in the Scriptures, and become stronger in our faith. He certainly goes beyond most preachers in doing that.

If he is building us up in the "most holy faith" because of his "questioning" he could be doing good for Christ's true church. As such, he should be prayed for, as the Apostle Paul was prayed for, that the passionate fire he brings against the body should be turned to advocate for the Lord and evangelize the world.

This can only be done with diligent prayer, fellowship with those who our Lord loves (all people), and letting the Lord work in those lives.

Heaven will be a grander place when both friends and enemies bend the knee together before our most holy God.

Later . . . .
Ol' You-Know-Who

James L said...

Ol' You-Know-Who do you even watch Johnny Robertson because if you did you would know he doesn't care about anything but himself. No other 'preacher' around here lies or threatens people or is as hateful as he is. In the Answering Church of Christ site he is being asked what proof his own church is New Testment like they brag about and he won't answer. He doesn't know anything about his own church so he can't question others.

Truth said...

I believe people have the right to ask questions. I don’t believe people have the right to do so when they take away others rights to worship without being harassed.

If someone is looking for a “debate” to ask questions there are proper ways to go about doing such.

If someone wants to ask someone else to “debate” where they are asked questions, they can pick up a phone and call or mail a letter requesting a debate. The person being asked to debate has the right to say no.

The person being asked to debate especially has the right to say no if the person being asked to debate sees the debate as unprofitable and sees the people wanting a debate as warped who have told lies and twisted Scriptures and other people’s words.

Chris, I see nothing wrong with you saying what you believe. I see nothing wrong with Johnny Robertson saying what he believes.

There is a big difference in what you are doing and what Johnny does. Johnny has harassed people as they assemble together to worship and at their homes. You haven’t done that Chris. And I want to say Bravo to you Chris for standing up for people’s right to worship and praise our Lord.

Anonymous said...

I don't know Chris what have you done lately to further the kingdom of God and serve Christ. I am merely trying to test your spirit.

Johnny Y.

By the way the comment I made the other day was in reference to you stating that it was ok to sin since Jesus healed on the sabath day.

Truth said...

Johnny Y,

I don’t believe Chris is advocating sin, but is advocating love.

The Bible tells us we are to follow the laws of the land. An abusive parent is granted full custody of their child and that parent says the other parent can never have contact with their child ever again. The parent without custody knows the parent who has custody is doing wrong and the parent without custody goes and kidnaps their child out of their love for them. The parent without custody is breaking the law. I don’t believe the parent without custody is sinning, but is loving their child.

Chris Knight said...

Johnny Y,
I never said it was "ok to sin".

But since when is breaking the "rules" of man tantamount to sinning against God?

Men are not God. Men were never meant to speak with authority equal to that of God. If they dare assume that, then it only proves that they are not of God at all.

Do you know what real Christian leadership is, Johnny Y? It is this: not "leading" at all in the way the world knows it, but rather serving others as Christ served us.

The greatest pastors of congregations that I have ever met have incidentally also been among the most humble individuals that I have had the pleasure of meeting. Not one of them ever suggested in any way that they were "better" than their fellow Christians. And I don't think that any of the ones I refer to would ever threaten or harass others in the name of God. These were people who knew that they lived by the grace of God... and were so overwhelmed by that knowledge that they could not help but love others as He loved us first.

On the dire opposite end of the spectrum there are those who do believe that God has "anointed" or "set" them to be over others, and they never show any guilt or remorse at how they abuse their so-called "authority". These are people who will never admit that they are wrong or apologize... because that would be an admission of error, and consequently would threaten what stake of "power" they think they possess.

Power and control, Johnny Y. They are the absolute last things that we who claim to follow Christ should be led to believe we should want or need. So why should we go after them to begin with?

Anonymous said...

Chris,
God stated that we are to observe the laws of the land. Pray for those in authority over us.
But you still have not answered my question. What have you done lately to further the kingdom of God or serve Christ? I am merely testing your spirit.

Johnny Y.

Calvin said...

Johnny Y, I can't speak for Chris but I think he furthers the kingdom of God and serves Christ just with his blog. He's showing zeal for Christ tempered in love and conviction. Chris is being a missionary with it to those without Christ and he is undoing the bad of people like Tim England and Johnny Robertson. What strikes me most about Chris is that he doesn't care to admit that he's imperfect but that God's grace is enough to overcome weakness.

Chris you can delete this if you want but that's what I believe.

Anonymous said...

I have been a friend to Chris along time. He is a good person and I think it is good that he is against legalism. I agree that Johnny Roberts and Tim England are not the best of people to represent Christians everywhere. Is it my place to say they are not Christians no. That will come in the day of judgement, And I assure you that God will Judge Rightly. But I want to know where Chris stands cause one minute he is proclaiming to be a Christ follower (From the parody commercials on tangle) and the next minute he is saying bad things to others and using foul language. I think that it is great that he is standing up against These two guys. But it is all about how we conduct ourselves in rebuking another. For instance there was a situation where a man was putting down gay people and during the confrontation one of the gay people spit in his face. The man started to yell at him "I want him arrested he assaulted me" but when you look at Christ he took the spitting and beating of sinners for the very ones who he was willing to save. I think that it is ok for Chris to make his stand but if he is a Christ follower then he needs to try to refrain from attacking others to make a point. He needs to do it in Christian love and humility "full of grace and seasoned with salt". I have always been Chris' friend through thick and thin. He has made me to think more of things and as iron sharpens iron I want to edify Chris to build him up as well.

Chris Friend,
Johnny Y.

Gary Ceres said...

I'd comment that actually testing the spirits should include testing mere men. If we believe that the spirit is a real entity (which of course I do), than each man woman and child possesses within him and herself spirit(s) whether of the Lord or of the demonic variety. So the commandment to test the spirits is essentially a commandment to test mere men.

Gary Ceres said...

Johnny Y,

With all due respect you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Jesus did indeed turn the other cheek....but he also overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple. He also stood in front of the adulteress and told the crowd that only he who was without since should cast the first stone. Christ is multi-faceted. In the face of the defense of others, Christ demonstrated time again that aggressiveness in the defense of the just is not a vice.