Tuesday, July 07, 2009

Cult driven out of Reidsville as Johnny Robertson gets caught in a lie (and the "Church of Christ" digs for dirt... literally)

Many people have told me that on Sunday night's television broadcast of What Does The Bible Say? on WGSR - or as I call it "The Martinsville Taliban Show" - local cult leader Johnny Robertson of the "Martinsville Church of Christ" claimed that there are now four robust congregations of the "Church of Christ" (which is nothing like the mainstream Churches of Christ) meeting in this area. Those would be his own Martinsville group, one at the old post office on The Boulevard in Eden, the one that has been coming together in Reidsville at the Holiday Inn Express, and a group meeting in Ruffin.

Robertson alleged that the Ruffin "Church of Christ" had been meeting for "over a year" (his words).

Curiously, the July 5th 2009 broadcast of What Does The Bible Say? on WGSR was the very first time that Robertson or anyone else with the "Church of Christ" has mentioned a group of their own in Ruffin.

Now some very intriguing information has come to light, the upshot of which a rational person could only possibly take to mean that, once again, Johnny Robertson is telling us a bald-faced lie.

It turns out that there are only three congregations of the "Church of Christ" that are currently meeting in the area... and maybe not even that many!

James Oldfield, previously of the Reidsville congregation, is conducting the services for the cult in Eden. Robertson is still in Martinsville. There has been thus far no evidence that a Ruffin cell of the cult is meeting at all...

...and the Reidsville congregation is now completely defunct! Sources have told this blogger that "This meeting is no longer being held, nor is any meeting of their group being held in Reidsville." The reason? "This would seem to say that folks in Reidsville are too wise for the tactics of this group, and have rejected participation in this 'sect'."

So Reidsville has proven too much for Robertson's cult. Let us pray that other communities in this area - and wherever else they try to harass - will prove too much for them also.

Meanwhile, other sources have been telling me that the cult's much-ballyhooed two weeks of "tent service" in Danville and the accompanying thirty hours of television airtime that Robertson purchased on WGSR has been "a bust and a sham". In spite of what Robertson and Oldfield publicly claimed was a large outreach in the Danville area, very few people showed up during nightly services at the tent (and Robertson himself did "little or none at all" knocking on doors, choosing to order his goons out instead). I can say that The Knight Shift blog is in possession of numerous photographs that attest to the low turnout at the "Church of Christ" tent but as these might well identify the person who took the photos, I have been asked to withhold publishing them here.

I haven't seen the footage, but several people have told me that during Sunday night's broadcast Robertson aired a tape of himself accosting the wife of some local minister in the parking lot of the Wal-Mart in Martinsville. Robertson alleged that he "just happened" to see her in the parking lot and coincidentally had his camcorder with him... which the same people have told me that it was pretty obvious that Robertson was stalking the lady (as is his well-documented custom).

Now for the last bit of info for this report...

Folks, I didn't believe it at first, but plenty of people have been telling me about it and now The Knight Shift can confirm: Johnny Robertson's "Church of Christ" has been caught digging through the trash cans of people Robertson has decreed to be "enemies" of his cult! They are literally trying to "dig up dirt" that they can use against those they are actively seeking to, as Robertson infamously proclaimed last year, "defeat destroy".

I've read the Bible quite a number of times, but for the life of me I can't recall any passage that teaches us to go through others' garbage in order to attack them.

(But then again, Johnny Robertson also claimed recently that he needs a camcorder because he doesn't have the Holy Spirit... whatever that is supposed to mean.)

The lesser angels of my nature are more than inclined to note that should any member of the cult come to my home and attempt to behave in their typical miscreant fashion, that I will not only shoot him dead, but I will gladly and immediately post full color photographs of his freshly-deceased corpse on this blog. As a warning to the next ten generations that it is the right of each person to seek God as best he or she can understand Him and without fear of harassment.

That's just the lesser angels of my nature though...

208 comments:

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Heterodoxy said...

"The lesser angels of my nature are more than inclined to note that should any member of the cult come to my home and attempt to behave in their typical miscreant fashion, that I will not only shoot him dead, but I will gladly and immediately post full color photographs of his freshly-deceased corpse on this blog. As a warning to the next ten generations that it is the right of each person to seek God as best he or she can understand Him and without fear of harassment."

That's the most fluid and beautiful assertion of the right to self defense that I've seen lately.

Katie Gaffner said...

Chris, I can affirm that yes JR and his henchmen have in fact been digging in the trash of innocent people in the Danville area. But I add that he was not digging in a church members trash but rather a home near a church in the Danville area and he then reported on his little show that the trash found belonged to the minister of that church. However the house shown beside this particular church was not the ministers home at all nor did it belong to the church in way shape or form. So yet again Johnny has lied and conned his viewers. He's a pscyhopath and he better be aware that the good people of Danville are joining together and that if he continues these harmful tactice (ie, stalking, etc), he will be brought to civil justice. So there's you some inside scoop Chris. :)

Anonymous said...

In reference to Katie's comment.
I was told basically the same thing about the Danville trash can. I was told the person that lives in that house does not attend that church.

Chris Knight said...

That's crazy!! The sources indicate this hasn't been an isolate incident and that the cult has been quite mad about going through trash... but now this is even MORE bizarre!!

I am currently hosting friends from a foreign land at my home for the next several days. I can't wait to fill them in on some of the nuttiness we have going on around here, including about the nonsense that Robertson, Oldfield and their followers are constantly involved in, LOL!!

L B said...

Johnny Robertson and his minions are very wicked reprobate people who cannot be reasoned with and are without any conscience or shame or guilt. They are the most evil and hardhearted people in this entire area. They are completely psychotic. They are trying to divide this community with THEIR church that IS NOT IN THE BIBLE like you have very truthfully noted Chris. How crazy is a group of people that thinks the name on a sign outside a church is what saves or damns someone? That is the craziest thing I have ever seen. If Johnny Robertson and his cultists came to my door I would tell them to go away and if they kept bothering me I would not even call 911 and do what I could to protect my family. NOBODY DESERVES to be harassed like Johnny Robertson & James Oldfield are doing to innocent people. The Church of Christ cult is the American Taliban and spiritual Communists.

Anonymous said...

I didn't visit the tent meeting but I drove past it a few times last week. You wouldn't know anything was going on if you didn't know about it already. It was mostly empty only a few people inside. Bust is the right word for it. Christ of Christ preachers want everyone to think they did something really big and good but they did nothing.

Anonymous said...

Robertson has only 9 Cult Members attending his so call church in Danville.
I also drove by the Tent meeting on my way home from work and only 5 or 6 cars were there. People in this area are not interested in being in a cult like his.

Anonymous said...

J Robertson said a lot that he was spending thirty thousand dollars to buy airtime for his big tent and it only attracts 5-6 cars.
He really is delusional!

Katie Gaffner said...

I think you guys are right, people in this area have caught on to these guys. But honestly I am not sure that converting lost souls is at the top of JR's priority list. It seems to me that he is more interested in spreading his message of hate and harassing folks than he is in accomplishing any real "mission". At first I was bothered by JR enough that I wanted to debate him but I have realized over the course of the last year that JR is honestly a crazy person and not to be reasoned with or given the time of day. He's a dangerous man and if comes to my door or my church, the police will be contacted.

Anonymous said...

On tonight's show JR is showing he's hit with a no trespass by a policeman to stay away from a church he's been doing harassment of. I think everyone should file a no trespass, restraint order against JR and if he violates it then prosecute! Robertson is a psycopath on the loose he needs to be put down like a dog before he hurts someone.

Anonymous said...

Chris! R U watching tonight's Martinsville Taliban Show? A preacher has Johnny on the ropes! Johnny can't answer about baptism and Jesus and what Peter wrote when he didn't say baptism was needed! Johnny looks like a fool! He looks like a sick crazy old man! He is trying to change subject but the preacher won't let him!

paden said...

hey every one are yall rely that blind yall acuse johny of so many acusations and say that hes wrong for terring down flse doctrine yet yall want to tear him down its the same on both sides and by the way i watched tonights show and i thought he did a pretty good job of handling those calls and chris why wont you respond to what i said and look at the scriptures your arguments are weak and also i would like to know how is the church of christ a cult and how is johny the leader when they are open about everything and just want to talk and examine the scripture

Katie Gaffner said...

paden...if all JR wants to do is talk and examine scripture why is that he and his henchmen have made it a habit of following people to their homes and digging through the trash of Danville residents. You tell me BCV where it says that the truth of God's Word should be exposed in that fashion. He acts as if he is so innocent and kept saying why would he get a trespassing order for "disturbing the peace"... well honestly, his behaviors are much more than a disturbance they are alarming and threatening. He doesn't just ask questions, he makes threats. Thats what makes him dangerous and thats what makes his actions comparable to that of a cult leader. He has a complete disregard for proper ettiquette and regularly puts people in harm way. He should be charged for defamation of character the way he has talked about some ministers in the area and the fact that anyone would find that man worthy of respect is beyond me. Respect is something that is earned and I would have no problems with a person merely seeking to teach and ask questions, but JR is seeking to do nothing but tear down individuals.

Chris Knight said...

Johnny Robertson has never opposed a false doctrine.

Johnny Robertson is a false doctrine.

He is certainly not a many of any true doctrine. He has not once demonstrated, or even tried to demonstrate, why his "doctrine" is at all "true".

Funny thing: in the past few days, I've escorted my Belgian friends all over Reidsville and Rockingham County. And everywhere that I've gone, I've been greeted by friends and well-wishers and more than a couple who have told me that Robertson and his cult are very wicked people who need to be stood up against.

It was something that was not lost on my foreign friends.

They said that it's great that the community is not letting itself be bullied so easily by "such a crazy man!"

paden said...

and your still blind to the point that your trying to tear him down the only reason you dont like him is because he teaches what the bible says and not what your denomination teaches and the bible does teach about false teachers and standing up for the bible and exposing false doctrine and i havent seen johny do anything else he isnt judgeing or attacking by personal standards but by righteus judgement according to the bible {john 7:24} now do you even know what a cult is its a group of peaople who do things in secret sorry johny doesnt do that hes as open about everything as possable and the reason he does what he does isnt to tear people down you see he realizes denominationalism is false and he want as many people to go to heaven as possable and being friendly doasnt always get results look he tryies to be nice but generaly people wont listen so hits them hard with the point so maybe theyll realize there error

paden said...

look chris and katie im going to quit arguing about johny for a sec and ask that both of you plz tell me what denomination your in and what your views are and will just let the bible show wich ones right

paden said...

chris tell me what makes johny a false teacher and you say hesnever opposed a false doctrine he did tonight and just about every night ive watched him and he constantly proves what the bible says and how the church of christ folos it unlike all the babtist methodist catholic presbiterians and any other denomination

Mad In Martinsville said...

Robertson has never preached the Bible. Robertson preaches a very small selection of verses from the Bible with his perverted interpretation. The Bible teaches that even Satan knows scripture well Johnny Robertson is a servant of Satan and does his best to do his job well.

And Paden Johnny Robertson IS a psychopath and a dangerous person and I believe if he shows up at anyone's house that the person he's trying to bother shouldn't even call the police but instead shoot Johnny Robertson dead. He is evil and only there to cause trouble and he will make trouble one way or another. Johnny Robertson would not be missed by people in Martinsville and Reidsville. He has no soul and is a threat to public safety. It's the Christian thing to defend your home and family and Robertson is a threat to everything of that.

Chris, I would even shoot Charles Roark if he came to your house. He is a threat to others also and he would not be missed by anyone either. His mom is no doubt tired of bailing him out of trouble all the time.

paden said...

johny robertson has never preached the bible are you ignorant ofcorse he has you just dont want to listen and saying he only preaches part of it is dumb he takes the whole council of God not parts and twists them thats alll the other denominations but quit playing around with dumb arguments and lets discuss the bible i can show that whatever denomination your in is false and not saved and by the way if johny is so horrable and perverted then why cant anyone answere him and the main problem with yall is that yall rely dont care if you get to heaven or not you just want to be right and do whatever your parents did quite being dumb and compare the scriptures with whatever doctrine you believe and with what the church of christ teaches thats what any person who had a care in this world for there soul would do

Katie Gaffner said...

Paden I appreciate that you wish to discuss the Bible. I have discussed on many occasions my belief with those who follow JR interpretation of scripture. I have no issues with you or anyone else really in the local CofC members. My only issues are with Johnny himself. I would give him credit where credit is due if I felt that his only goal was to truly preach and teach God's Word. However, when you have an individual that harasses others with much more than just the "questions" that he claims, then you really don't give their thoughts and words a whole lot of credit or respect.
I do not wish any ill will on the man but I at the same time think it's completely ridiculous for anyone to build up as some harmless and innocent man. His routine actions do nothing but prove otherwise.

paden said...

ok so lets discuss my first question to you is what are your beliefs and denomination and how are you a youth miniter as a girl

Chris Knight said...

Katie, Shawn Paden is now doing his best to troll several other posts on this blog, including one about my foreign friends who have been visiting.

Paden is showing all the respect and polity that we have come to expect from Johnny Robertson and other cult members: namely, none at all.

As one friend said last night: "These people are not Christians that other people would want to be Christians like."

Chris Knight said...

Shawn Paden,
How are you a minister who can't spell?

paden said...

ahhhhhhh chris why dont you believe me im 15years old i dont even know a shawn paden and i reply on any post that pertains to the topic im talking about just trying to get you to respondand have a discusion and i dont know why you delete my comments about alcholic beverage

Katie Gaffner said...

I find it entertaining Chris how it's always about re-direction with this bunch. Instead of staying on topic, which is Johnny and his dangerous behaviors.... lets start haggling with the "girl" over ministry issues. I have no problems defending my faith and no problems discussing my vocation. I do however have problems with people avoiding the topic at hand... which is that Johnny is a manipulator and that he has made it a habit of harassing local ministers and their congregations. So why don't YOU answer those questions Paden. If this man, JR, is such a person of integrity, then WHY is it that so many people would want to take out "no trespassing" warrants and the like?

Chris Knight said...

By the way, Shawn Paden...

You must consider me to be quite a formidable enemy of the "Church of Christ", since you have now spent the better part of an hour doing nothing but trolling on my blog.

One would likely think that you are worried about me, to be so obsessed with me as you are.

I mean, I don't look at the Royse City Church of Christ website nearly as much as you are looking at my own site.

The fact is: people here in North Carolina and Virginia are standing up to your fellow cultists. From what I understand, Robertson looked like a confused child last night, only able to babble something about "Cha-cha" and not making any sense. The "tent" was a two-week trainwreck of a failure, and now Robertson is being hit left and right with court orders to stay away from churches that he would rather harass.

Sooner than later, the false "Church of Christ" that you represent will be driven out.

paden said...

ok whatever if yall only want to talk about johny roberts fine but the reason i have been on here for this long is because yall are on and responding i dont see you as a threat especialy after watching your videos i thought you looked dumb and looked like a quack the reason im doing what im doing is simply im trying to convert you and i found out who shawn paden is the preacher at royse city church of christ no thats not me im 15 and i dont live in royse city i would tell you my full name and where i live but you scare me and im afraid of getting shot kinda but not rely

Katie Gaffner said...

See the thing is Paden, I really don't have a problem discussing my faith with anyone. I feel that for the most part it probably is just a waste of breath but I enjoy the debate and the opportunity to share my beliefs. But its the personal attacks that bother me and that always seem to become the central point of any religious debate with any CofC'ers that I have "talked" to. But this thread was started in response to JR's behavior in our area. Like I have said, if he were truly preaching and only asking harmless questions, you would find no argument with me. I however, have seen first hand his antics and I have heard from others the very dangerous nature of his so called "questions". If a paerson is truly seeking to convert lost souls, then what does it serve to follow around ministers, their wives, their families, and their congregations. What purpose does it serve to dig through a random persons trash and then bold-faced lie and say it belonged to a minister? What purpose does it serve to follow a married woman from the TV station to her home across state-lines and videotape her comings and goings? Those are not means of conversion... those are means of harassment.

paden said...

i dont think he will be driven out ive been reading his reports for a long time and it looks like hes getting pretty good results and the congregation there is growing and i dont think he would lie abou there not being a congregation somewhere and to say the tent meeting wasnt a succeces i would disagree i watched the programs at night and it looked like they had alot of reponse and to say that there are only 9 members where johny preaches isnt right because he has several preachers in training there plus his family would be more than that

paden said...

ok i think he does simply to show whats going on and where error is but look i dont care about personal attackes and if that is what hes doing just to tear someone down then i would disagree but i dont believe that i think hes trying to convert souls now plz tell me your eliefs and i will gladly have a bible study

Chris Knight said...

Katie,

Have you ever noticed how these people quickly devolve into self-parody? :-)

Katie Gaffner said...

now wait, don't just jump off the subject. I just gave you two examples of his behavior. Tell me how those two incidences could be interpreted as attempts to convert lost souls? Show me in scripture where God authorizes such manipulation and harassment as a means of converting the lost?

paden said...

ok ill respond to specificaly what he did if dug through a trash can i dont know what he was looking for or what he was doing but the reason he folos minesters and goes to there churches and homes is to ask questions or try to get them tot debate but ill give you an instance of what he did was good he folod some preacher found out he was living in a 500k house now what does that say hes rely only concerend with himsllef and money because preachers shouldnt have that much money just to blow but rather to be put into teaching otheres another is show how the differnt universitys are accredidted but fake and mean nothing it shows that hey there are some lies going around and some dtuff that shouldnt be happening

Katie Gaffner said...

I watched the show last night. And I must agree that it has always concerned or bothered me to see a minister of the Gospel living the "high life" so to speak. But I don't know Mr. Cha Cha or what his financial life and records look like. And as far as the accredidation of a University, I don't know the back story on that either. I was just confused at where Johnny and his "questions" fit into either scenario. I thought his whole purpose and goal was to convert lost souls so what does the personal finances of a ministers and a local school have to do with his ultimate goal? I am not being facetitious, just generally wondering.

And while I appreciate your attempting at answering my question, it doesn't change my opinion at all. Following anyone could be deemed as harassment. And digging through ones trash accomplishes no spiritual goal.

paden said...

ok i agree i dont know what he was doing so dont ask me ask him but thats not all hes doing i watched the show last night to and i thought he covered the babtist doctrine well here what i see him doing

1.hes not preaching on the blood of christ and what jesus on his show

2.hes preaching doctrine and error to get people to realize there not saved so he can convert them and then preach the blood

3.over all he preaches the law instead of the blood because thats what needs to be preached and ive hers him answere it by using paul when he preached the law way more than the love of christ

his overall goal though is to get people to heaven and when i look at other people who just get up and talk they dont get intrest and results johny is getting intrest and results so he presses on in what hes doing just trying to convert people now like i said i dont know johny so its possable he could be doing some stuff that i wouldnt agree with but i would want to hear his side of the story also

Katie Gaffner said...

fair enough Paden, I agree that Johnny should answer for his own actions

as to him covering the Baptist doctrine last night, I would disagree. he repeatedly showed the excerpt from the book but he wasn't really covering the doctrine by flashing that book. I'm not saying he doesn't know Baptist doctrine because I think all those who debate from the CofC seem to know very well the beliefs of others. Which brings me to another point.. if they know so well the doctrine of others then why does he need to ask these pastors "questions"?

paden said...

um i was pretty sure he talked about tithing once saved always saved babtism and maybe some other stuff i wasnt refering to that book but the reason he asks questions is to show what they teach and to get them to consider there views from the bible and maybe start a discusion or a debate i usualy always start any bibical discusion with a question because it get the person to think

Katie Gaffner said...

I heard him mention the other stuff but I didn't feel he was covering the doctrine... honestly sometimes he is hard to follow in his on-air debates. I find that both he and the callers tend to run in circles which gets nowhere in terms of information discussed.

paden said...

rely i understand him very well and the person discussing and im only 15 hey he has a blog wich i dont know if you have viewed or not called whatdoesthebiblesaytv its old and hasnt been updated in a while cause i dont think he has time for it anymore but his videos there are easy to understand you should check it out also im not sure wether you know what i believe or not but heres 2 websites wich ahow what the church of christ teach www.gbntv.org and www.housetohouse.com

Katie Gaffner said...

oh yes I am very well aware what the beliefs are.
I have spent some time reading it for myself before.
I have my disagreements but I have no issues with you or anyone else besides Mr. Robertson.

Its not that I'm confused. I know what I believe but its my opinion that the conversations on his program are very circular conversations and rarely offer true answers as much as roundabout arguments.

paden said...

ok well lets have a discussion right now where i bet we disagree here you choose once saved always saved or instrumental music

paden said...

also you know im a member of the church of christ what are you

paden said...

if you dont like those arguments how about speaking in tongues womens roles (prayer and preaching) timothy ch2 or how about salvation and babtism

Katie Gaffner said...

I appreciate your general attitude and I'm not saying this to be rude but I am not interested in arguing anything with you because I have debated all of those topics with your peers and I know your positions well. And though I appreciate your offer of "discussing", I am not a convert to be won. I am a believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I believe in Him as the Son of God, sacrifice for my sins, and that He is my risen Lord.

paden said...

great im glad you believe but that want get you to heaven and im also offering you the opurtunitie to convert me and if you have studied them and you know them then i dont know why you havent left your views and become a christian in the one true church and plz tell me what are you are you babtist methodist presbyterian luthren assemble of god mormon catholic greek orthodox jehova witness seventh day adventist plz have a discussion

Katie Gaffner said...

what will get me to heaven then? because Jesus said He was the way.

I will share with you my denominational affiliation, if you can articulate the specific need for knowing that information

paden said...

if i know then i can tell you whats wrong with it and you can defend it and on how to get to heaven yes you are correct it is through jesus we can get to heaven i have no problem with that you and i probably both agree that you are saved by the grace of God but its how we come into contact with that grace that we differ and look you and me need to have this discussion because there is only one church and one body wich are the same and there is only one doctrine taught in the bible

Katie Gaffner said...

well thats your first mistake in our discussion because my friend when we as humans place ourselves into the seat of "judge" we are calling ourselves God. So even if I felt comfortable labeling myself in any one of those man made denominations, you would have no authority to tell me what is wrong, only God through His Word can rightly admonish. It has nothing to do with you or JR or what church you label yourself with, so I am not concrned with what you find wrongwith whatever you assume I believe or do not believe. My only judge is God.

paden said...

that was your first mistake in assuming that i have no right to judge ofcorse i have right to judge from the bible john 7:24 so actualy you could call it my judgment but its the bibles judgemnt that im stating youve been judging johny alot so dont go in to judgement according to the bible you are not saved because you are not in the body wich christ is the savior of and by me judging does not place me with god when we are told to judge so tell me what you are i mean rely are you ashamed johny has the same problem because he cant get people to say what they are so he has know idea what they believe im having the same problem with you so plz tell me where you go to church and im not looking for the specific name but like is it methodist babtist or non denominational will you plz tell me

Katie Gaffner said...

but see thats some of my biggest issues with the JR crew is that you speak so adamently against denominations but then you get upset when you come across a person who says they are a believer but refuses to label themselves.

I attend a congregation that has a label but I do not consider myself a "baptist" or a "methodist". I consider myself a follower of Christ. In high school I attended several different congregations, none of where were the same denomination. And so you see I do not feel comfortable claiming an affiliation or labeling myself with a man-made label used to define a certain people group.

And yes, Johnny and even you just in your previous comment, come across as it is you that are making the judgements, when in fact it is God's Word by which we judge, not by mans opinions or mans words and debates.

paden said...

ok lets just not give you a label you said you were a youth minister so where are you a youth minister at or just tell me your beliefs i know you call yourself a christian and say your saved so will you plz tell me how

Chris Knight said...

I believe this exchange will articulate and illuminate for the vast majority of people about who here truly demonstrates the presence of Christ in one's heart.

Katie has reflected a sweet, sweet spirit and profound wisdom.

(Shawn) Paden has done nothing but resort to petty insults and empty rhetoric. Like the rest of his cult, he is obsessed with destroying others.

The false "Church of Christ" is like a spiritual cancer seeking to eat alive and ultimately kill the conscience.

I have worshiped in real Churches of Christ before, and what we see represented by Paden, Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield, is not the Church of Christ. They are theological thugs who have hijacked a denomination's name and think that is what will save them, not the grace of God.

And I am more than content with how Paden is representing his cult on this thread. He is certainly showing the world his and the cult's true colors.

Katie Gaffner said...

paden, that is an easy question to answer

I was saved by the blood of my precious Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

It is by His stripes that I have been healed- Isaiah 53:5

It is through Him that I have found the way, the truth, and the life- John 14:6

I believe in Him and have been given eternal life- John 3:16

It is my confession in Him that guarantees me my citizenship in Heaven- Romans 10:13


And Chris I would have to agree... I have found more often than not that this particular sect of CofC does not seek to build up but to tear down, does not seek to grow but to destroy.

I hope I do not misrepresent the name of my Savior, Jesus. For here I seek to represent none other. I will not defend myself for I need no other defense than Jesus. And actually He's my offense and defense! :)

paden said...

i have yet to attack any person but merly attacked the doctrine wich you still wont represent i have in no way acted anything oposite of a christian you chris knight dont even know your bible or you would realize im trying to help you and katie to see the truth and about katie being sweet and profound in reason well yes she has not acted mean but she hasnt acted differnt from me and wisdom she hasnt brought one thing from the bible yet to represent her postion and niether have you i guess maybe deep down inside you realize your doctrine is false but dont want to admit it im trying to help you see you error so you will come to the knowledge of truth and you will be saved i do this because i care about your soul and i disire that no man be lost but you on the other hand havent even tryied to convience me whats right and obviusly you beleive im wrong and that im going to hell so what does that say about you

paden said...

ok thank you you finaly used the bible now lets discusses it

Chris Knight said...

How does one "lets discusses it" with an illiterate?

Katie Gaffner said...

I havent accused anyone of going to hell
and yes discuss those verses

paden said...

you have been saved by the blood of christ ok i agree you have been saved by his death ok i agree it is through him you get to heaven ok i agree you beleieve in him and have beeen given eternal life wrong i do not agree john 3:16 states that whosoever beleieves (should) be saved not will be saved iof you beleieve you will obey the gospel you said by confesion using romans 10:13 wich says calls upon the name of the lord will be saved wich is babtism acts 22:16 not the sinners prayer you do have to confess him though but thats found in mathew 10:32-33 and acts 8:36-37 and you left out repentance and babtism acts 2:38

looks to me like you need to go study ill help you today sometime read the book of acts from start to beggining then come talk to me about salvation

paden said...

hey chris shut up about ny spelling already i garuntee i am way smarter in school than you were i went to the international science fair dude i was a strait A student until i started going to a privaat "chritian" school and i still have high grades and do very well

Katie Gaffner said...

you assume I have not already, which I have and you also wrongly assumed that because I did not mention repentance or baptism that I do not believe in either which I do

now tell me how you must convert me

Katie Gaffner said...

and paden keep in mind that how "smart" you perceive yourself to be has nothing to do with your salvation

Chris Knight said...

Katie,

(Shawn) Paden and Johnny Robertson are examples of what Jesus warned about in Matthew 23:15...

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

Robertson and Paden and Oldfield do not believe in salvation by the grace of God and the freedom of Christ. They instead seek to use Christ as a snare and then a prison, to re-enforce the very law that Christ came to end. Robertson and Paden and their kind want to define salvation so that they are the ones who determine who is saved and who is not.

To belong to the false "Church of Christ" is to be a slave.

For all their condemnation of "false religions", it is Johnny Robertson and Shawn Paden and their ilk who are the FALSE PROPHETS, in every way that they possibly can be!

Katie Gaffner said...

no worries Chris, I'm confident in and assured of my salvation. :)

I enjoy the discussions no matter how circular they become. The discussions remind me why I do what I do and how much I truly do love my God and all that He has saved me from and called me to do.

paden said...

your views hold no water without scripture now im going to show yall how to be saved if you read ephesians 5:23 you see that christ is head of the church and he is the savior of the body now if you wish to argue as to wether or not the body and the church are the same we can go to the first chapter of ephesians and see that in ephesians 1:22-23 where we see it is the same so know we know that cjrist is the savior of the body and we also know that in order to be saved we have to be in the body now the question arises how do we get into the body or the church now lets go to acts ch2 on the day of pentacost we see that the apostles just recieved the holy spirit the multidues have gethered and the apostles start to teach them they learn about what they had done to jesus by crucifying him then they ask men and brethren wha must we do to be saved and peter tells them repent and be babtized evry one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remissiion of sin now down in verse 41 we see that as many as gladly recieved his word were babtized and it says there were added to them about 3000 souls now verse 47 says the lord added unto the church daily such as should be saved and since the church is the body and christ is the savior of it then you have to be babtized to go to heaven babtism is where we come into conntact with the death of christ romans 6:3-6 so in order for one to be saved they must be in the body and to get in the body one must first hear the word romans 10:17 then believe john 3:16 then repent acts 2;38 then confess acts 8:36 be babtized for remmision of sins not as an example 1 peter 3:20-21 and remain fathful and not turn back revalation2:10 please consider this read all the conversion examples in acts then reply

Katie Gaffner said...

my biggest question Mr.Paden to you, very simple

I read those verses now and have read those verses before and I am in agreement that baptism is important.

However, how do you completely ignore scriptures that clearly speak of salavation and yet do not mention baptism, do we just ignore those scriptures? I see nowhere in all those verses that the salvation lies in the baptism alone. Salvation lies in Jesus alone, not the water. Until you can prove that the water does the saving, then you hold no water with me (pun intended).

If its by the water that we are saved then why did we need Jesus to come to earth and become a lowly human. Why did we need Jesus to endure an unimaginable painful death, if the water is what saves?

And next question.
I have been baptized. So how can you or Johnny or Norm or James or Mark or anyone else in the local CofC tell me that I am not saved?

Chris Knight said...

Hey Katie,

I have been baptized also. At the age of 24. It remains one of the most wonderful and beautiful moments of my life.

But that is not enough for the false "Church of Christ" like Paden and Robertson are with, though they'll scarcely admit to it.

To them, you must not only be baptized, you must be baptized by the "Church of Christ". In their twisted thinking, that's the only baptism that "really counts".

Robertson himself told me this personally a little over a year ago.

(He also curiously admitted that his own baptism was a tragic event. Sounds like from the beginning he has been captive to legalism, and now tries to make everyone else just as inwardly miserable as he is!)

Katie, you have been baptized for the right reason, and I rejoice in that. Just as I'm sure you rejoice that I have been baptized also.

Does it really matter what willing fools like Paden and Robertson think of that, or of anyone else's baptism? :-)

Katie Gaffner said...

oh you're right, it certainly doesn't change anything depending on what they think about mine or anyone else's baptism... it's just interesting to me how they might answer/defend their own beliefs in light of my own baptism

I have concluded the same before though (not to discredit your potential answer on here Paden) but I have posed this question before and felt as you explained Chris, that its a matter of legalism and believing in them and their church, not the Word of God.

I believe it's Paul in Ephesians who said "for it is by grace that you have been saved" and then "not by works, less any man should boast".

So what JR or Paden or my neighbor, or a perfect stranger may feel about my salvation or baptism... means nothing to me, for its not by works nor man that I was saved,but through the blood of Jesus... Praise the Lord!!

paden said...

look you guys what you just said i have no problem with and if youll think with me were almost in total agrement look i never said that babtism saves you i said the grace of god saves you you are right in that we are saved by grace and not of works lest anyman should boast have ever heard that the faith that saves is the faith that obeys babtism is simply a condition but it is in that condition wich your sins are washed away by God and therefor one of the age of acountability who has not been babtized cant go to heaven unless babtized do you realize what babtism represents it represent you dieing with christ being buried with him then arising that where you obtain the grace of God through christ's death on the cross in wich you are then added to the body wich christ is the savior of look at the isrealites and the wall of jericho the wall s didnt fall down because of them but because of God and they wouldnt have fallen down if they hadnt walked around the walls you see its the same way with babtism the faith that saves is tha faith that obeys and there is not one conversion example where it was belief only and babtism wasnt needed under the new law

paden said...

sry i forgot to answere why your babtism is no good well first off tell me why you were babtized was it for salvation in that you had your sins washed away or was showing that you had already been saved and were just publicly diplaying your salvation also where you go do they teach and worship God according to the bible

Chris Knight said...

Hey, (Shawn) Paden...

If an astronaut is onboard the International Space Station and wants to be saved, but the nearest water for baptism is about 300 miles down on Earth and a meteor then hits the station and everyone dies, does that astronaut go to Hell because he couldn't possibly be baptized?!?

LOL!!

It's way too easy to poke fun at y'all.

paden said...

and its easier to laugh back dude didnt you try to make an argument about an iron lung too look we can make any scenario we want to it doesnt matter for example lets say there are 2 astrounats in space one a christian the other a non believer and they study and he is converted and according to you belief only lets say he is fixing to believe in jesus and confess jim and repent but right befor anything is done or he says he believes in jesus the ship blows up look quite makin scenarios and just look at the bible and by the way i think i figured it out your a babtist right since you said you married one heres what you need to do look at what does the bible say and not question God and let him be the final judge i can only judge by the bible but also that astronaut did have a chance to be saved prior to the flight now if he was going to be babtized and he died i would say he would probably still be saved because that was what was going to happen he had already made that dission but let God be judge and just obey the bible and quit making scenarios

Chris Knight said...

You are attempting to change the subject and run crazy circles around the discussion instead of answering like an intelligent and articulate individual.

According to the beliefs of the false "Church of Christ", such a person WOULD be condemned to Hell, on account of absence of baptism.

You cannot escape your own conclusion.

paden said...

stop i did not avode the question and i answered it very well why dont you act intelligent and realize you makeing scenarios doesnt show anything because they can be made to go either way and yes if not babtized one would go to hell but your saying if one want to be babtized and cant can he still go heaven look Gods the judge im not if mark 16:16 says he who believes and is babtize will be saved then thats that end of discusion im saying if one is in the process of going to be babtized and dies befor he is babtized i would say he would probably go to heaven but im not the judge i only know what the bible says and it clearly teaches babtism is essential and you making scenarios is you avoiding what has already been said

paden said...

and look to about escaping my conclusion its not my conclusion its Gods conclusion

Chris Knight said...

Mark 16:16 appears nowhere in the earliest manuscripts. It is almost universally agreed to be a late addition, strongly bolstered by the fact that not once earlier in scripture does Jesus say anything about baptism being a requisite for salvation.

And even if it is legit, He does not make baptism an absolute requirement for salvation within Mark 16:16 itself.

(Shawn) Paden, you and Robertson and others in your cult are inferring something that is not there, based on a verse that in all likelihood wasn't there to begin with.

You = Epic Fail

Truth said...

I have started a blog about Johnny's cult. I don't think it is showing on searces though. Here is the link.

http://bondservant3.wordpress.com/

paden said...

personaly i think you make yourself look bad and i have heard that befor but wether you can prove it or not it doesnt make a differnece and that wasnt the first time babtism is talked about in the gospel go to john ch3 it says the same thing and plz spare me the argument of saying he talking about the fluid in the mothers womb it says water wich is not embryonic fluid or go acts 2:38 or acts 22:16 or 1 peter 3:21 or romans 6:3-6 they all teach the same and if that doesnt help look at every conversion account in acts every one had babtism quite being so stuborn and ignorant and realize you are wrong and need to change

Chris Knight said...

Wow Truth... you've been busy!! Blog looks great!! :-)

Click here for Johnny Robertson - Martinsville Va. Cult Leader blog!

paden said...

response chris and by the way truth i went to it and the latest thing was from april i didnt see anything about johny

paden said...

ah i found it

paden said...

not to good

Truth said...

Thank ya Chris.

paden said...

hey truth i responede to all the arguments lets see what you got ot say

paden said...

chris how is johny physicaly dangerous i think its the other way around with the way people act toward him oh and your reply on babtism please

paden said...

i got a question what does it mean to preach jesus and what does preaching jesus involve?

when you preach jesus do you preach salvation is that what it consists of?

Chris Knight said...

As the very wise Francis of Assissi once put it:

"Preach the gospel unto all nations, and if you must use words..."

paden said...

sounds to me like he was quite dumb now want to answere my questions i answere yours or will you admit you have mno answere you just avoid questions and say erelavant stuff because you cant answere chris quit being such a num skull and so stuborn and ignorant you are not a bible theologian you know very little bible no wonder johny realy wasnt interested in debating you now grow up

Chris Knight said...

(Shawn) Paden,

Why don't you read what Francis said, and think about it?

In fact, think real hard, if you can.

And if yours might be an enlightenable mind, you may possibly comprehend the very Christ-like theology of what Francis was conveying.

If you can't well... that's not my problem, is it?

paden said...

i get what hes saying but hes wrong preach means to use words actions wont save sombody only help get them to the point to be saved

Chris Knight said...

No. You still do not understand.

You not only apparently lack the mind to understand, but far more telling you do not have the heart to understand.

Truth said...

Acts 2:38 it was repentance that brought forgiveness of sins not water baptism, 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

Acts 22:16 Paul was baptized with the Holy Spirit not water. Paul was told to arise and be baptized not go down in the water and be baptized.

1 Peter 3:21 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, Jesus’ blood He gave on the cross takes away our sins and the Holy Spirit gives us a good conscience toward God.

Romans 6:5 shows Paul is speaking about symbolism in which the likeness we are water baptized.


John the Baptist made it clear that Jesus would baptize us with the Holy Spirit who is the seal of our salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14) but yet some don’t recognize the baptism of the Holy Spirit in other Scriptures.

paden said...

wow go back and read all of those in context not one teaches that and if you think you have the holy spirit why dont you rattle a little french off for us or any language

lets me show you your fallacies

1.acts 2:38 teaches very clearly repentance and babtism = remisions of sins

if you have repentence then you can be babtized for remission of sins but repentence is not enough but you cant be babtized wiythout repentence because then you havent truly changed

also read acts 2:41 thos that were babtized were added unto them and then in verse 47 it says those added were added to the church wich is christs bidy wich he is the savior of and they will be saved

2.act 22:16 there is not 2 babtisms but one ephesians 4:5 so i ask that you prove there is a holy spirit babtism and what purpose it serves today and if you notice the context of acts 22:16 it says wash not remove so therefor it was water babtism but read the whole chapter matbe it will help you

3.1 peter 3:21 i cant beleieve your argueing this point or all these points for that matter ive herd debates with greek scholars over the topic and they were against babtism being apart of the plan of salvation but they agreed it was water babtism now read the verse befor noah and his family were saved through water and now it calles this the antitype or like figure wherunto babtism dith also now save us not the washing away of physical dirt but the answere of a good consiece toward God (because your sins have been washed away) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

4.ok read romans again yes it teaches babtism is symbolic there is no argument there but look at what it says when your babtized your babtized into his death and it says you arise to walk into newness of life we have had our sins washed away through the resurection wich is in a greement with 1 peter 3:21 now i got a question

do you bury dead people or live people? it says we are buried with him and we areise out of the watery grave of babtism as a new men so it is evident that we have had our sins washed away

5.prove your point on holy spirit babtism how does it happen what scripture proves that for us and you beter not give something that is not written for people today dont try and use the apostles or something befor jesus death and if you would please name one account in the new testament where someone was saved by just believeing

Katie Gaffner said...

Actually Paden, the word "preach" is defined as proclaiming or advocating. And though we most often "proclaim" through the use of words, we can also do so through actions. For example, I can very accurately show my discontent with someone without ever opening my mouth (ask my husband for proof of that statement).

To "preach the gospel" without words is to show the love of Christ through our actions. For example, in Matthew 25, Jesus speaks to the "righteous" saying that when he was hungry they gave him something to eat, when he was thirsty they gave him something to drink, etc. The righteous replied to him that they had never done those things for him and Jesus says in verse 40, "whatever you did for the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me".

So you see, reflecting that love of Christ is not done with harsh words, with intruding cameras, with accusations and manipulations, or even with debates. Reflecting the love of Christ is most often and most powerfully demonstrated when His people minister to the needs of the lost or those astray.

So my friend, if you truly felt that I was in need of conversion, would not it make more sense to approach the subject gently and with mercy than to be harsh and brass? If Johnny's main goal in this area is to truly convert lost souls, then he needs to take a good long look at his tactics, because they are more certainly not Christlike.

To preach the gospel and if necessary use words... may not make sense to you, but I dare say its because such a gentle approach is beyond your understanding because you have spent too much time studying the behaviors of JR and finding them appropriate. And though the approach is not as confrontational as others, it is still remarkably effective. People are drawn to a person that shows them grace and mercy. People want to listen to person that gives mutual respect. People want to have what you have when you exhibit true love and concern for their earthly AND spiritual well-being. It's amazing what a little compassion would do for your "preaching" techniques.

Chris Knight said...

(Shawn) Paden, your 5 points can be destroyed with merely 2.

1. You are ignoring the audience of the apostles.

That alone screams out your ignorance.

2. You are still fixated on enforcing legalism.

Which demonstrates more than you know that you are literally preaching "another Christ".

I will also add in a third one...

3. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you (a) resort to petty insults and (b) can't spell or use proper grammar.

paden said...

you havent done anything and you continue to make yourself look dumb by argueing outside of the scriptures i dont know what you mean by legalism i dont preach another christ moron and by your weak response it is apparent you didnt even read any of the scriptures or rely consider my points now look ill listen to your points but i would ask that you do the same and aproach ideas with an open mind

oh and my ignorance of who the apostles were talking to i guess your refering to acts ch2 when there speaking to non christians on the day of pentqacost and they learn about what they did in crucifying jesus and thay ask what shall we do to be saved and they were told repent and be babtized every one of you for the remission of sins now im sorry but your the ignorant one here you dont consider anything i have to say just try and avoid i mean you call yourself a bible theologian maybe you should take that name down since you cant argue from the scritures pretty sad a 15 year old knows more bible than you and look im not concernd about what you think of my typing grammer or spelling skills that is not what im here to show off but rather to help you see the truth and obviously you cant answere the bible so you are resulting to insulting my grammer....wow

paden said...

wow katie look i apologize if i have come across mean and non christian like i absolutly agree that you should and i agree with you on the point of actions but they dont always work and actions wont save somebody in the end there must be some conversationthat takes place now with johny i agrre he does come acroos harsh sometimes but he tries not to at first and usaly only does if the other person does and he id generaly jusr holding his ground

Katie Gaffner said...

the words "moron" and "dumb" are not effective means of evangelism, if you wish to discuss someone who does not know the scriptures perhaps you should first put yourself in check. Please refresh my memory, in what book of scripture did Jesus authorize the use of derogatory name-calling and demeaning accusations?

Katie Gaffner said...

I can agree with that Paden that it's the gentle actions that pave the way for conversation. But I however disagree that even once another person becomes harsh, it is still not an appropriate means of evangelism to reciprocate that behavior.

paden said...

look im not saying its ok to name call or that you should in evangelizing if i called you something like that then sorry but if someone does something to deserve that name i think they should get it i wish we could meet in person so yall would see im just a teenager and we could discuss the bible but chris im sorry for whatever i caleed you and any one else ill try to be kinder but lets not get away from the topic at hand babtizem

Katie Gaffner said...

Maybe that's what you aren't understanding though Paden. We're not getting away from any topic. Evanglism is more than just debating and discussing a point over and over and over again. Trust me when I say that Chris and I have heard your interpretation many many times and know the arguments well enough ourselves to argue both sides of the debate.

And actually the original topic of this post was discussing the actions/behavior of JR. And so by pointing out the inappropriate use of name-calling we are actually staying right on topic.

Because true evangelism is not just a debate. True evangelism should define every area of your life... from what you debate, the words you use, your temper, etc.

And no... just if you feel someone "deserves" to be called a name, doesn't make it right.
It's one of those lessons that your mom probably taught you as a kid.

paden said...

im still a teenager i cant even drive yet but evangelism is going out and converting people and bring them to Christ and God's word but your actions should always be right if you are a christian and i dont think yall know that much about babtism because if you did then you wouldnt be argueing because once you understand it ther is no argument and i can tell by some of the things you asked me like works and what chris asked about scenarios tells me yall dont know it that well and yall havent truly studied as deep as possable and therefor have not studied to show yourself approved i think you thought we believed in babtismal regeneration wich we dont and a couple of other things so dont tell me you know the argument because if you did there should be no argument or you should keep answereing me or bring up something else and i dont see that happpening

Katie Gaffner said...

yes evangelism is about converting but if the rest of your life is not above reproach then no one will care to listen to your words... as is the case w/JR.

and I ask questions as a means of divulging information from the person I am currently debating, not because I have not previously studied or heard the answer. You see I attempt to not assume that I know what you know before you have been given the opportunity to speak for yourself.

So yes I very clearly understand baPtism and very clearly know what the CofC teaches and I very adamently disagree because you and your teachers have very routinely failed to prove that your point are without a doubt THE anything.

paden said...

say that last point again i dont quite understand expound on reproach are you saying htere is more than just going out and conveting lost souls yes i know that but would you say that that help convert a lost soul is not hte most important after all the great commision is to go out and preach the gospel to every creature

Katie Gaffner said...

The word "reproach" means to bring shame or disgrace, to criticize

To live a life above that is something that Paul mentions in Acts 24 when he says that he seeks to have a conscience void of offense toward God and man.

I am not in ANY way insinuating that the great commission is not important. Most certainly we are commanded to GO and make disciples and to do so requires that we engage in conversations and that we seek to meet the needs of those around us in order to begin those conversations. However, conversion does not mean that we must be harsh, rude, invasive and otherwise uninviting into those conversations.

How can anyone lead a single person to Jesus through a conversation when that person is rude and has turned away all those potential converts?

paden said...

yes i agree and i know you see johny like that and in some aspects i see a little bit of it to but not all the time i think it strtes with the other person then johny starts because he wont back down and he stands his ground but i agree you should present the truth in love

Truth said...

Peter knew it was repentance that brought forgiveness of sins 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

There is one baptism that saves the baptism of the Holy Spirit who is the our salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14)

1 Peter 3:20 it was the ark in which they were in that saved them through the water.
And verse 21 says the baptism is not an outer removal of filth, it is an inner removal of filth giving us a good conscience toward God which is done by the baptism of His Holy Spirit through the blood of Jesus, not water baptism.

Revelation 1:5 “And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood.”

Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

Titus 3:4-5 “But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.”

Romans 8:7-9 “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.”

The Bible never ever says God ever stops giving people the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

I cannot comprehend Paden or anyone else could defend a man that when he looked at underaged girls dancing in ballerina outfits claims he see panties. The way he exploited those girls I think is the worst thing he has ever done.

I cannot see that such an act could be Godly. He could memorize the Bible's every word and I don't think this would change.

Katie Gaffner said...

what in the world?
when did that happen anon?

Chris Knight said...

Katie,

It's true. And this is going to get absolutely ugly, but I don't care...

Almost a year ago, Johnny Robertson went on WGSR and announced to Charles Roark that he had caught First Christian Church in Kernersville, North Carolina in an act of child pornography and "violation" of the decency laws.

"They're showing panties!" Robertson claimed.

(Of course Charles Roark, the sellout and if you ask me complete whore that he is, did not even try to challenge what Robertson was saying or ask for any corroborating evidence to back it up... which demonstrated to a lot of people that Roark is lowlife scum and completely irresponsible as a broadcaster.)

The "proof" that Robertson had was some very fuzzy footage that he had pirated from the First Christian website, showing teenage girls doing liturgical dance in the church sanctuary.

These were young ladies who were wearing nothing out of the ordinary that any otherwise sane person would recognize as perfectly decent ballet attire.

And yet, the very filthy-minded and evil Johnny Robertson insisted that these girls were dancing in their "panties".

Katie, I saw the original, high-resolution footage of the dance when I visited First Christian Church. There was nothing indecent at all about what those young ladies were doing.

And for the first time I went from believing that Johnny Robertson was merely a deluded fool, to knowing fully well that he is an absolutely wicked, unrepentant evil man and pardon my French, a COMPLETE BASTARD.

I don't apologize for thinking or saying that. Any man who would do such a thing as Robertson did to First Christian and its innocent youth last year, might get mercy from God but he won't get any shred of mercy from me. A man like that would in a sane world be thrown under the prison.

Make no mistake: Johnny Robertson is a very dangerous man. He is capable of anything.

Such as it is, I personally will have no problem at all shooting Johnny Robertson if he ever shows up on my property.

I'd not only consider it an act of public service, I know darn well that plenty enough folks in this area will stand behind me (including more than a few members of law enforcement who have likewise confided with me that Robertson must be dealt with if he doesn't change his ways).

Johnny Robertson crossed the line last year with his public accusation of child pornography at First Christian.

He hasn't crossed back. Or shown any intention to.

So I'm making the line for him, in no uncertain terms.

Hell, I'd gladly shoot Charles Roark too if he comes onto my property, for his complicity last year but also to keep him from harassing any other innocent property owners or broadcasting footage of deceased loved ones.

These are people who are out of control and a clear menace to public safety.

So far as I'm concerned, the public has more than a clear mandate to protect itself from such individuals, by any means necessary.

Katie Gaffner said...

whoa that's insane! I had no idea about that incident, I must have been completely ignoring JR at the time or something.

But it doesn't surprise me. One of his recent incidents here in Danville was that his crew visted a church and was videotaping the members children at a kick off rally for the children's ministry. Some of the parents were apparently were worried that his crew and he were pedophiles. And my husband has said that he feels very strongly that if JR or any of his henchmen were to visit our church and be videotaping any of our children, that he would not hesitate to take action either.

I agree.. JR is dangerous. His followers are misguided but I do not view them as a physical threat like I do JR.

Very strange story though, thinks for the info.

paden said...

chris knight you make me sick saying johny is horrable for disposing child pornography i thought you were a bible theologian would you like to justify that its ok for there to be balarenas dancing in a church building with short skirts no you cant if you knew the bible you would know its wrong for any human to show there skin up that high and i cant beleiev you would result to name calling and say i would shoot johny robertson why dont you grow up johny hsa never thrown even a punch only disposed error and thats makes you so mad you want to punch him and cuss at him dude you get mad at him for going and asking people questions and you would fell threatened if he came on your property well i got news for you any person in there right mind would be more scared of you than johny like johny said in that tape you made wich proves nothing he says most of people would have called the cops on you you didnt aproach him kindly the whole time you just wanted to show him up wich you didnt and he never once acted ugly toward you thats says alot about you not him

paden said...

to truth

will you please provide me a passage that says holy spirit babtism and by you saying there is makes the bible no good because you contridict itself because the bible says one babtism there for we know of water babtism so ther cant be another and if you think you have the endwelling of the wholy spirit the plz answere these questions

1. why in acts ch 8 did the apostles pass the holy spirit to otheres by laying hands on them and why did this take place after water babtism

2.why cant you heal

3why cant you speak in tongues

4.if you think you can in all of these then why cant you pass it on

paden said...

to every one who is argueing plz read the whole book of acts and then reply on babtism

Truth said...

Mark 1:7-8 “And he preached, saying, "There comes One after me who is mightier than I, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

John the Baptist said Jesus will baptize us with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:43-44 “To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word.”

God knowing a person’s heart accepts them giving them the Holy Spirit. Cornelius’ household was given the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized.

1 Corinthians 12:29-31 “Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.”

Not everyone who has the Holy Spirit has miraculous gifts.

paden, I have given comments giving plenty of Scripture that shows God gives people the Holy Spirit. You however have not given any Scripture that shows God no longer gives people the indwelling Holy Spirit.

paden said...

look ithink we need to clear some things up your comment on acts is a result of you not reading in context and understanding and i dont get what your trying to say about corinthians but with mark heres what i say there are not 2 seperate babtisms just one but the babtism does not mean anything until after jesus death on the cross now i believe the holy spirit is our guide through Gods word but we can not possable have him in us because we cant perform miracles or speak in tongues tell me how do get babtized with the holy spirit and whats the point and prove every scripture i gave is even talking about a holy spirit babtism and not water because i know you cant

paden said...

ah ha ok truth i need you to define your potion on the holy sprit indwelling in hearts of christians now i will afirm it but this aside of some kind of holy sppirit babtism if i understand right acts 2:38 says be babtized and youll recieve the gift of the holy ghost now the question is what does that mean i think you think its outside and apart from the bible as where i believe it is the bible and the holy spirit is our guide there is no such thing as a holy spirit babtism because babtism means to submerse and is only related with water now in the process of water babtism we see our sins are washed away and we are added to the body that is then when we have the holy spirit as our guide through Gods word now what do you think

i will study more into this topic being as i havent that much

Truth said...

John the Baptist said he baptized with water, but that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.”

Those who do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit are not His, those who do have the indwelling Holy Spirit belong to God. If you want to ignore this that is on you.

When after Jesus’ resurrection were the disciples baptized with water, please provide the Scripture, being as you say is the event all people are forgiven surely it would be of significance and importance to record the disciples water baptism.

And you never gave the Scripture that says God no longer gives people the indwelling Holy Spirit, please give us the Scripture.

paden said...

i gave the scripture that showed in order to recieve the holy spirit acts 8 and that the apostles had to give it im not argueing as to wether you have or not have im argueing as to what it means and how you get it and read the book of acts every conversion acount has babtism and what dothe apostles being babtized have anything to do with if it says what babtism is romans 6:3-6 and that your sins are washed away and its calling upon the name of the lord acts 22:16 then it is essential and you cant say its the holy spirit babtism as there is one babtism and thats water babtism now i believe you recive the holy spirit and yes hes in your heart im not ignoring that but you cant prove that the holy spirit works outside the bible now plz tell me how we are babtized with the holy spirit and what purpose it serves you can go to this website to see what i say

http://www.gospelway.com/god/indwelling_spirit.php

plz read this i think it will clear up everything

Truth said...

God gives us the Holy Spirit who seals our salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).

And the apostles didn't ever give the Holy Spirit, God gave people the Holy Holy Spirit. Peter didn't lay hands on Cornelius' household when God gave them the Holy Spirit. And please give the Scripture where God says the Holy Spirit will later on only be the Bible.

And no you haven't answered either of my other questions yet and I am waiting for an answer, let's see if you can answer questions without asking questions. Here are the questions again.

When after Jesus’ resurrection were the disciples baptized with water, please provide the Scripture, being as you say is the event all people are forgiven surely it would be of significance and importance to record the disciples water baptism.

And you never gave the Scripture that says God no longer gives people the indwelling Holy Spirit, please give us the Scripture.

paden said...

question 1-answere 1

by disciples i guess you mean apostles and i have no problem with saying no where in the bible are the apostles babtized nor does it talk of there salvation as far as i am aware but whether thay were or werent doesnt matter because they tought babtism and only wrote of jesus or other people or events that took place they didnt write about there previus lives up onto ther esalvation they wrote way after when they would have been babtized and since peter told others to be babtized and repent in acts 2:38 you can conclude they were babtized

question 2-answere2

and you never gave the scripture that says he does. the apostles were the only ones who passed on the holy spirit and so when they died so did they power but we are still instruceted by the holy spirit through Gods word it is our guide

concludng remarks

plz go to website i gave and you will clearly see what im trying to say because i will be honest i havent studied that much about the indwelling of the holy spirit

http://www.gospelway.com/god/indwelling_spirit.php

now i assume that you would agree that too preach jesus would include the plan of salvation if you read acts 8 when it talks about philip and the ethiopian unich it sasy that philip came to the unich who was reading he then explained it to the unich then preached Jesus to him immeaditly after Jesus was preached they came to water and both philip and the unich went down into the water and were babtized we noticed that philip asked if believed because he knew that his babtism wouldnt mean anything if he didnt the unich then confessed Jesus and was babtized and if you noticed they went down into the water both philpi and the unich wich disposes sprinkling and we notice that after his babtism then the unich went on his way rejoicing

plz go to link about indwelling of the holy spirit befor you decide to reply

http://www.gospelway.com/god/indwelling_spirit.php

Truth said...

I didn’t say the apostles weren’t water baptized but asked why their baptism wasn’t recorded since you say that is when all people are forgiven, wouldn’t the apostles very own baptism be significant since they also give us examples to follow.

You make the mistake believing the Holy Spirit is a it when the Holy Spirit is a who, the Holy Spirit is a being. You also ignore that Peter didn’t lay hands on Cornelius’ household when they were given the Holy Spirit before they were baptized with water, the apostles did not give the Holy Spirit to people, God gives the Holy Spirit.

Danville Man said...

Johnny Robertson is a sick sick sick man.

I do solemnly affirm also that if Mr. Robertson appears at my front door that I will shoot him also.

I am not saying who I am because I want Mr. Robertson to not know which home in Danville he should avoid.

Johnny Robertson is the most evil man to ever come to this area.

He is not a Christian man. He is a servant of Lucifer.

Protect your children and families. Stop Johnny Robertson at your front door.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Chris Knight said...

I don't care what y'all say about me but please refrain from using the name of our Lord in such a blasphemous manner.

Thank you.

Anonymous said...

FYI I believe the only times the word "lucifer" is used in the New Testament it is refering to Jesus Christ as the Morning Star. The word is used perhaps once in the Old Testament and refers again to the Morning Star but in this instance to King Nebuchadnezzar. Lucifer also appears twice in the ancient Exultet sung at Easter but again referring to Jesus Christ. Lucifer is a beautiful word in sound and meaning hijacked by myth makers.

paden said...

chris i complement you in your comment but also i would apreciate it if you didnt cuss as well and truth heres what i say about the holy spirit

the babtism of the holy spirit was something that only happened in the 1st centuray so people would believe and the gospel would be preached the babtism of the holy spirit is no longer around today but water babtism in wich you recieve salvation and wich is the gift of the holy ghost now the only indwelling of the holy spirit is through the bible gods word now in reference to cornelius and his house hold befor i answere this i want you to read acts 10 and 11 in full context and you still afirm your postion i will answere plz take note as to when they recieved the holy spirit and why the recieved the holy spirit and i wish you would refer to this link

http://www.gospelway.com/god/indwelling_spirit.php

paden said...

every one be sure to tune in to johny tonight if yo cant watch him on tv you can watch him at this link live at 8:30 eastern time

www.wgsr47.tv

lets see what he has to say tonight and chris maybe you should watch and make a blog post concerning it afterward or moday i would like to see what you have to say maybe you should make that a weekly routine to report on johnys show and tell of all his lies which you think hes telling

Anonymous said...

Chris:

Thank you for reporting about Robertson and the Martinsville Church of Christ which as you rightly note is not a real Church of Christ.

I also live in Danville. I have never met Johnny Robertson however his son Micah did knock on the front door of our home during the first week of their "tent revival".

And if I see Micah Robertson again, I will knock the teeth out of his head for what he said to my wife.

Robertson's son is as evil as Robertson himself.

Anonymous said...

Chris is the most morally upstanding and principled and CHRISTIAN person I know Paden. You aren't worth to shine his shoes. If this world had a lot more like him it would be a lot better place. He's fighting evil people like you and Johnny Rube-erson that only want to hurt everyone else.

Anonymous said...

Chris is REAL! Chris is HONEST! Chris is SINCERE!. Paden you and Johnny Robertson are FAKE! You are FRAUDS! You are CONMEN!

Truth said...

paden, the church you attend must not pray then since you say the Spirit is no longer active, there is no need to pray for God's help. There's no need to pray for God to help us have better understanding when reading the Bible, there's no need to pray for the sick, there's there no need to pray for those in need, there's no need to pray for missionaries, there's no need to pray for anything according to you, but not according to the Bible.

Katie Gaffner said...

okay....
what does the Bible say is on folks

Chris Knight said...

And we are all laughing about it over on Facebook!! We need to do a running commentary of this :-)

paden said...

yall are sry to say micah and johny are that horrable to want to bring harm to them now truth read ephesians 6:17 the spirit is the sword of god wich is he bible and the holy spirit does nothing with our prayer thats jesus and the only thing the holy spirit does to day is give us the gift of salvation and the only part with us afterward today is through the bible

Katie Gaffner said...

so you don't pray Paden
you don't feel convicted?

cause if you don't have the Holy Spirit, you haven't got anyone to convict you

Katie Gaffner said...

I have caught JR point blank telling 3 lies on air tonight.
I watched his program on Wednesday and tonight he is contradicting himself and making up stuff. Interesting...

Truth said...

paden, the church you attend must not pray then since you say the Spirit is no longer active, there is no need to pray for God's help. There's no need to pray for God to help us have better understanding when reading the Bible, there's no need to pray for the sick, there's there no need to pray for those in need, there's no need to pray for missionaries, there's no need to pray for anything according to you, but not according to the Bible.

Chris Knight said...

Paden,

What do you want?

paden said...

the churc where you attend must folo some man made creed and not the bible yall just base every thing on feeling like oh i feel im saved oh i feel God hears my prayers oh i feel that even though there is no authoritie for instrumental music in worship to God i feel its ok when will yall wake up and relize feelings mean nothing becuase the muslims feel just the same about killing yall and me not praying why dont you use the bible to show me where it says if i dont have the holy spirit in me then i cant pray yall fail to realize what the holy spirit does so if yallare so sure yall have it then yall should be famous because no one else can speak in tongues or perform miracles or have any miraclules gift non human and hey katie if johny contridicted himself spit it out dont say it and leave it at that and chris what is this face book and who here believes john ch3 should be transelated fluid insted of water all of yall should give up because none of yall can answere to 1 peter 3:21 where unto the like figure babtism doth also now save us or romans 6:3-6 where your babtized nto his death to aris to walk into newness of life haveing your sins washed away and chris since i know you say the blood of christ saves us then how do we come into contact with his grace and blood or how are we forgiven and i challenge any of you and i know johny does too to show anyone saved under the new law without babtism and i guess none of you read that link i gave or the book of acts from begining to end

paden said...

who thinks im over 20 years old and a preacher and my name is shawn paden

Chris Knight said...

Paden,

What do you WANT?

Truth said...

paden, I never said you couldn't pray I said:

paden, the church you attend must not pray then since you say the Spirit is no longer active, there is no need to pray for God's help. There's no need to pray for God to help us have better understanding when reading the Bible, there's no need to pray for the sick, there's there no need to pray for those in need, there's no need to pray for missionaries, there's no need to pray for anything according to you, but not according to the Bible.

Katie Gaffner said...

heres my question Paden... theres 3parts to the trinity, do you believe that? There's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Now God the Father, we cannot see and He has not walked on earth since Genesis when we are told that He walked in the garden with Adam and Eve.

God the Son, also called Jesus, walked the earth in human form (though still 100% God) for 33 years was crucified, dead, buried, rose again, and ascended into Heaven.

So what's left?
the Holy Spirit

without the Holy Spirit, you have no representation of God in our world... without the Holy Spirit your bridge between sin and God is still nothing but a deep chasm

Katie Gaffner said...

and paden.. sure I'll give examples

On wednesday evenings program a man by the name of Damien called in and briefly mentioned that "some" people might interpret the scripture given for the water to mean amniotic fluid. He did not claim that he believed that and he never indicated he was a member of any church. He debated briefly with JR and then was hung up on. In that time of debate, he asked questions, argued with and eventually was cut off by JR.

Tonight on JR's program he claimed that Damien "the Baptist" believed that the water should be changed to fluid in scripture. So he claimed that the man was Baptist though he never said that about himself. He also claimed that Damien "cussed" and talked about his wife... when Damien never said a single curse word while I was watching. And Damien doesn't know JR or his wife, it was his first time tuning into the program (or so he said).

AND on Wednesday's program when Damien mentioned the possibilty that the water could be referring to "fluid", JR's acted completely shocked like he had never even heard of such a thing and then tonight he claimed that he has heard many Baptists in our area preach this doctrine about fluid.... so how could he be shocked about it one night and then be so familiar with it by Sunday?

So yes... 3 blatant contradictions.

paden said...

in no way do i agree with any of those contradictions but im not going to discuss them becuse we can discuss better things now answereing you

1.theres 3parts to the trinity, do you believe that? There's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

answere-yes

Now God the Father, we cannot see and He has not walked on earth since Genesis when we are told that He walked in the garden with Adam and Eve.

God the Son, also called Jesus, walked the earth in human form (though still 100% God) for 33 years was crucified, dead, buried, rose again, and ascended into Heaven.

So what's left?
the Holy Spirit

answere yes

without the Holy Spirit, you have no representation of God in our world... without the Holy Spirit your bridge between sin and God is still nothing but a deep chasm

i dont know where the idea without one on earth makes a difference and im not sure what that proves now my questions

Katie Gaffner said...

oh and Paden... I think you "sound" as if you are not 15 years old as you so adamently claim but I could care less if you are 5 or 55... I am not a discriminator of age

Katie Gaffner said...

I enjoy that you cannot prove that my contradictions are wrong and that you avoid the notion completley

JR is a liar... and a manipulator, and those 3 contradictions in tonight's program alone are only a small percentage of what can be proven about those statements.

and as for your response to my questions....
without a representative of the Holy Trinity, how would you be able to receive salvation? Salvation is not man-made my friend. If it were, we would have never needed Christ to come to earth and endure all that He endured.

Chris Knight said...

Y'know something Katie and Truth...

"God" according Johnny Robertson's "Church of Christ" cult is a pretty weak and pathetic deity.

Of course, Robertson and his followers are pretty weak and pathetic anyway.

Truth said...

Been... well okay talking with you paden, all you have proven is that you are just another follower of Johnny Robertson's cult. I will be praying for you.

paden said...

questions for everyone

1.in 1peter 3:20-31 does it not say that noah and his family were saved through water and the antipye doth also now save usand its the answere of a good conscience through Jesus crucifiction

2. in romans 6:3-6 does it not say what babtism represents and what it does and that you arise to walk in newness of life after being buried with christ and arising to walk ina new life haveing the old man put away

3.does ephesians 5:23 teach that you have to be in the body to be saved

4.are the body and the church the same

5.on the day of pentacost in acts ch2 were there not 3000 that asked what must i do to be saved and told repent and be babtized and you will recieve the gift of the holy ghost

6.at the end of the chapter in acts2 does t not say the Lord added to the church daily as that wich should be saved

7.in romans 10:13 where it says whoever calls upon the name of the lord will be saved ever indicate that as a prayer and ever a sinners prayer wich is not in the bible

8.in acts 22:16 does it not teach babtism washes away sin and that it is calling on the name of the Lord

9.does mark 16:16 not teach babtism as being essential

10.will some one name one example of someone being saved under the new law seperate and before babtism

11.if you answere any of the wuestions please indicate wich one and answere it fully backing evry thing up with the bible and not mer man made opinions and if you believe any to not mean any water present please prove it

thank you and please do not answere if your answere is not biblical

paden said...

in answere to katie i believe that salvation is given at the point of water babtism by the holy spirit and do not argue his xsistence today

and truth did you talk about me on another blog thats funny dude ok ill just say im 15 ill be a sophmore this year and i live in san angelo texas not royce city

Truth said...

paden, you don't read what people write very well, I sure don't trust your understanding of the Bible.

1 Peter 3:20 it was the ark in which they were in that saved them through the water.
And verse 21 says the baptism is not an outer removal of filth, it is an inner removal of filth giving us a good conscience toward God which is done by the baptism of His Holy Spirit through the blood of Jesus, not water baptism.

Acts 22:16 Paul was baptized with the Holy Spirit not water. Paul was told to arise and be baptized not go down in the water and be baptized.

Romans 6:5 shows Paul is speaking about symbolism in which the likeness we are water baptized.

Peter knew it was repentance that brought forgiveness of sins 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.”

Mark 16:16 doesn’t say he who is not baptized will be condemned.

Calling upon the name of the Lord is when we are speaking calling to Jesus.

Luke 18:35-43 “Then it happened, as He was coming near Jericho, that a certain blind man sat by the road begging. And hearing a multitude passing by, he asked what it meant. So they told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. And he cried out, saying, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" Then those who went before warned him that he should be quiet; but he cried out all the more, "Son of David, have mercy on me!" So Jesus stood still and commanded him to be brought to Him. And when he had come near, He asked him, saying, "What do you want Me to do for you?" He said, "Lord, that I may receive my sight." Then Jesus said to him, "Receive your sight; your faith has made you well." And immediately he received his sight, and followed Him, glorifying God. And all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.”

This man called on Jesus to give him mercy, Jesus who revealed to man God’s nature gave him mercy.

Cornelius’ household was given the Holy Spirit before they were baptized with water. Romans 8:9 “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” Those who don’t have the Spirit are not His, those who do have the Spirit belong to Jesus. Cornelius’ household was saved before they were baptized.

paden said...

ok dude you and me are going to discuss this very deep and i want you to aproach it with an open mind as i will do the same because i have an answere to every one of your comments now lets examine the arguments

1.1 peter 3:20 through 21 the passage reads as folowing

20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by(through) water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

it says nothing about the ark saving it was the water because the ark wouldnt have floated without it and it specificaly says that now the anti-type or like figure is refering to weater babtism not holy spirit babtism

2.acts 22:16 says wash sins away if it wasnt water babtism then it should say removing but wash is in connection with water

3.yes sybolism water babtism is symbolism of Jesus's death but dont ignor what happens you die to sin and arise to walk in newness of life having your sins washed away

4.if you dont believe then you wouldnt be babtized niehter would your babtism mean anything or remove sins so what are you argueing

5.the passage refered to never says calling on the name of the lord and it never sasy he was babtized

6.im glad you chose this one and not the thief on the cross now this would take along time to explain very well so just go to this link for the answere as to why they were not saved befor water babtism but after

http://www.christistheway.com/2004/a04a05aa.html

plz read all argument and consider with an open mind and yes this is froma 15 year old kid

Truth said...

Titus 3:5-6 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior.”

The Holy Spirit washes us renewing us.

Cornelius’ household was given the Holy Spirit before they were baptized with water. Romans 8:9 “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” Those who don’t have the Spirit are not His, those who do have the Spirit belong to Jesus. Cornelius’ household was saved before they were baptized with water.

And isn't it past your bed time. I will be praying for you. Good Bye.

paden said...

i dont have a bed time and thank you for your prayers i will pray for you to and you are in quoting that verse not of works that we have done babtism is not a work but a condition that you meet where God takes away your sins wich is the gift of the holy ghost acts 2:38 and by the way ilive in texas not the same time zone and did you read that article to see why they were given the holy spirit and why your argument doesnt work

paden said...

why havent you responded truth and if you havent still read that link i gave ill go ahead and tell you one thing wrong woth your postion of every one who has the holy spirit is saved because if you wish to affirm this position then namins donkey should be saved being as he had the holy spirit because he spoke in human tongue

Katie Gaffner said...

so you are saying a donkey is capable of having the HS but a human is not??? strange

paden said...

nope i am sure not im saying just because someone is given the holy spirit does not make them saved cornelius and his family were not saved befor water babtism ther was a reson as to why they were given it and if you notice also in chapter 11 it was given right as peter began to speak it was given so they would learn about God

paden said...

Your claim that Cornelius the Gentile was saved before water baptism is inconsistent with the text of Acts 10 and 11. You've left out some important facts, friend. Please reread it again and answer this:

(a) An angel told Cornelius that Peter "will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." (Acts 11:13-14). The angel said Simon Peter will "tell you what you must do." (Acts 10:6). Cornelius and his household were ready to hear Peter's commands (Acts 10:33).
(b) The only thing Peter commanded them to do was to be baptized. (Acts 2:47-48).
(c) Therefore, when Cornelius did what Peter said and was baptized, he was saved.

You assume without providing proof that only the saved were ever given the ability to speak in tongues (i.e., speak in languages they had not previously learned). Should I remind you of Balaam's donkey which God gave the ability to speak in a human tongue (Numbers 22:28-30), or do you believe it is counted among the saved?

not my own words from beggining of link wich i gave

http://www.christistheway.com/2004/a04a05aa.html

Truth said...

paden, I've been busy today. And where does the Bible say the donkey that spoke had the Holy Spirit?

Anonymous said...

I had a dog once that could sing the Blue Danube Waltz. She was pretty indiscriminate in her sex life so I'm not sure she had the Spirit. However, she never cut her hair so there was certainly hope of salvation. I'll go check the verses. Be right back.

paden said...

Was Cornelius Saved Before
He Was Baptized?

by Tom Rainwater

QUESTION: Didn't you know that Cornelius was saved before he was baptized? That is because he received the Holy Spirit before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-48). The only ones ever given the ability to speak in tongues like this were those who were already saved.

ANSWER: Hello! Thanks for writing us.

Your claim that Cornelius the Gentile was saved before water baptism is inconsistent with the text of Acts 10 and 11. You've left out some important facts, friend. Please reread it again and answer this:

(a) An angel told Cornelius that Peter "will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." (Acts 11:13-14). The angel said Simon Peter will "tell you what you must do." (Acts 10:6). Cornelius and his household were ready to hear Peter's commands (Acts 10:33).
(b) The only thing Peter commanded them to do was to be baptized. (Acts 2:47-48).
(c) Therefore, when Cornelius did what Peter said and was baptized, he was saved.

You assume without providing proof that only the saved were ever given the ability to speak in tongues (i.e., speak in languages they had not previously learned). Should I remind you of Balaam's donkey which God gave the ability to speak in a human tongue (Numbers 22:28-30), or do you believe it is counted among the saved?

But let's, for the sake of argument, assume you are correct in saying that whatever followed Cornelius' reception of the Spirit is unnecessary for salvation. If that is the case, not only is baptism eliminated from the plan of salvation, then so is faith. Peter said, "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them...." (Acts 11:15). According to the apostle, the Spirit came on the Gentiles at the beginning of his sermon. This was before he finished providing proofs that Jesus is Lord. This was before Cornelius and company came to believe in Jesus. Notice that Peter doesn't mention belief in Jesus until the very end of the sermon:

"To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43).

Consider the consequences of your position in regard to Christians:

(a) If only Christians received the Spirit,
(b) and Cornelius received the Spirit as Peter began to speak (Acts 11:15),
(c) then, people could become Christians without believing in Christ.

Friend, are you prepared to say faith is unnecessary for salvation? Or will you give up your argument?

paden said...

this is the second part first part above not my own words

Now consider this:

(a) If Peter's words and commands were necessary toward Cornelius' salvation (Acts 10:6; 11:13-14),
(b) and Cornelius received the Spirit before Peter detailed the evidences concerning Christ and gave a command to Cornelius,
(c) then Cornelius received the Spirit before his salvation.

It should be obvious that the receiving of the Spirit and the speaking in tongues were not indications of a person's salvation. It is also interesting to notice that in the case of the twelve men at Ephesus (Acts 19:1-7), they received the Spirit and spoke in tongues after they were baptized in water. That's different from the order upon which your position depends.

Now we must ask: Why was the Spirit given to Cornelius and the other Gentiles to enable them to miraculously speak in tongues? God's purpose in this was to show the Jews who were present that He wanted Gentiles to be taught the same plan of salvation as they. First, God had to convince Peter in a vision to even have contact with the Gentiles (Acts 10:9-16,24-29; 11:4-10). As we noticed earlier, it was when Peter began to speak that the Spirit fell upon the Gentiles. This would have timed nicely with Peter's beginning words as he realizes:

"In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." (Acts 10:34-35).

What a demonstration to the Jews! Those with Peter were "astonished...because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also." (Acts 10:45). After his sermon and after contining to listen to these Gentiles "speak in tongues and magnify God," Peter said to his Jewish brethren:

"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" (Acts 10:47).

Peter understood clearly what God wanted Him to do next: Command the Gentiles to be baptized (Acts 10:48). None of the Jews present who had witnessed these things dared dispute this conclusion. Peter knew he must do what God wanted and not "stand in God's way" (Acts 11:17, NASB).

When Peter later told about this event to other Jews, their immediate reaction was stunned silence, then praise. They rightly concluded: "God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." (Acts 11:18). So then, the purpose for pouring the Spirit on Cornelius and company was to convince the Jewish Chrisitans beyond doubt that Gentiles should be taught the same plan of salvation; and when the Gentiles obeyed, they would be saved and have life, too. Jews and Gentiles could now be equals in God's kingdom.

Friend, this passage in Acts doesn't teach that water baptism is unnecessary for salvation. It teaches the very opposite. It clearly and loudly affirms the essentiality of baptism. Baptism is a command God wants both believing Jews and Gentiles to hear.

"And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." (Acts 10:48).

"...Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." (Acts 2:38).

this was that article i guess you never read

paden said...

i will now give an article to why babtism is essential

THE PURPOSE OF BAPTISM
by Keith Sharp


"Every Christian should be baptized, not in order to save him but because he is saved" (Joe T. Odle, Church Member's Handbook [for use in Baptist churches], Broadman Press, p. 17).

Our religious neighbors almost universally deny that water baptism is essential to salvation. If they are right, members of the church of Christ are guilty of Pharisaism, adding a requirement to salvation God has not made (Mark 7:1-8). If they are wrong, then millions of people who think they are saved are in fact lost, having failed to obey from the heart (with the understanding) a command essential to salvation (Romans 6:17-18). Since this question involves the eternal destiny of the soul, no question of more paramount importance could ever engage our attention (Matthew 16:26-27). Thus, we urgently inquire, What is the purpose of water baptism?


John 3:5

"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

There is one new birth, of water and the Spirit. The Spirit of God leads us by the gospel to be born again (Romans 8:14; 1 Peter 1:22-23). The only element of the gospel with which water is connected is baptism (Acts 8:36-39; 10:47-48). When the Holy Spirit leads us by the gospel to be baptized in water, we are born anew. Unless we do this, we cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Mark 16:16

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

The Lord divided people into two categories, the saved and the lost. Those who do not believe will be lost. Those who believe and are baptized will be saved. Christ made baptism as much a condition of salvation as He did belief. There are only two categories, not three. Jesus knew nothing of unbaptized, saved people. To be saved one must have enough faith in Jesus Christ to obey Him in baptism.

paden said...

Acts 2:38

"Then Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'"

The apostle Peter assigned to baptism the same purpose as repentance. If repentance is unto the remission of sins, so is baptism. Baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ" is "for the remission of sins." This is the same phrase, both in the English and in the original Greek, found in Matthew 26:28, where Jesus declared He would shed His blood "for the remission of sins." The Son of man shed His blood in order that our sins might be taken away, and we are to be baptized in order that our sins might be taken away.


Acts 22:16

"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Ananias commanded Saul to be baptized and promised him his sins would be washed away as the result.


Romans 6:3-4

"Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Baptism brings the sinner into Christ, where he receives "every spiritual blessing" (Ephesians 1:3) including salvation (2 Timothy 2:10). It also brings the sinner into the death of Christ, where he receives the benefits of His blood, justification from sin (Romans 5:9-10). The significance of baptism is that by going through a likeness of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, thereby demonstrating our faith in Him, we receive the benefits of His death in our behalf. Baptism stands between the sinner and being in Christ (verse 3), being in the death of Christ (verse 4), the new life in Christ (verse 5), being united with Christ (verse 5), being united with the Lord's crucifixion (verse 6), and freedom from sin (verse 7).


Galatians 3:26-27

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

We become sons of God by faith when we are baptized into Christ. Baptism stands between the sinner and becoming a son of God, getting into Christ, and putting on Christ.


Ephesians 5:25-26

"Husbands love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."

Baptism is a "washing of water," in fact, it is the only "washing of water" taught by the word. Christ cleanses the church, thus it is by grace (Ephesians 2:8-10), but He does this when we are baptized. The power to cleanse is in the word (John 15:3), but it is exercised in baptism. Any baptism not taught by the word is ineffective.


Colossians 2:11-13

"In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead, And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."

Christ performs an operation without hands upon our hearts when we through faith are buried with Him in baptism. He removes the sins of the flesh from the heart, forgiving us all our trespasses, and we are made alive with Him. Baptism stands between the sinner and having his sins removed, being raised with Christ, being made alive with Him, and being forgiven.

paden said...

Titus 3:5

"..not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.."

We do not earn righteousness, but we are saved by the mercy of God. This is accomplished when we are born anew through being washed (in water - John 3:5) and being made anew by the Holy Spirit.


Hebrews 10:22

"let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water."

When our bodies are washed in water, the blood of Christ is applied to our consciences, cleansing them from sin.


1 Peter 3:21

"There is also an antitype which now saves us, namely baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.."

Baptism saves us. It does not do this through removing dirt from the body but through allowing the conscience to be good toward God. This is not through any power in the water but by the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. The creeds of men assert: There is not one passage in the Bible that teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation (Odle, p. 16). They contend, "Baptism doth also NOT save us." But the Scriptures teach, "Baptism doth also NOW save us" (1 Peter 3:21, KJV). Will you accept the creeds of men or the word of God?


Conclusion

The purpose of water baptism is to save the alien sinner from his sins. Dear friend, you cannot be taught wrong and be baptized right (Romans 6:17-18). You must be baptized for the right purpose, the remission of sins. Any other baptism is spiritually worthless. "And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Anonymous said...

You sound like a man (or sophomore) that knows his Bible. Could you help me out brother? Please research the scripture that explains how to defuse the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. Get back to me quickly, I got a real problem here. Thanks in advance.

paden said...

um the holy hand grenade of antioch. sorry i think thats something from monty python and the holy greal and do not know where it is in the bible.please explain and maybe i can answere

Chris Knight said...

Well Paden, most of what YOUR cult believes in isn't found in the Bible either. It's either inferred, supposition or just plain crap.

And if you ever spell "grail" that way again, I will hunt you down and beat the living daylights out of you!

paden said...

sry chris didnt mean to offend you i guess your a myonty python fan too but did you know that the church of christ is the only one that says speak where the bible speaks and keep silent where the bible is silent. its the only church found in the bible. its one of the few with a bibical name. its one of the very few that worships correctly. its the only one that does things according to the bible and backs every thing it does up with scripture. i bet you would be surpised to find out that where ever you attend if they are using instrumental music in worship to God that they are sinning and basicaly mocking God for acting like there so good and this is so uplifting and then not do as hes commanded. i challenge you chris name one thing the church of Christ does that is not right.

and leave johny out of it just the church of Christ

paden said...

hey chris just looking aat some of your pictures you dont seem that scarey are you pretty big and strong because i wiegh about 165 and about 6feet tall if you would actualy consider fighting me and it would be sad if a 15year old wupt you.

ps. hey im just messin with you please dont get mad at me so that you want to inflict pain im just playing usualy when the topic isnt bibical or important

Chris Knight said...

You just named a whole slew of things wrong with your brand of "Church of Christ", Paden.

1. The "Church of Christ" is not "the church" that is found in the Bible. The "Church of Christ" as your cult and its leaders and followers have defined it only came into being in the last part of the 19th century and early part of the 20th century.

2. You and the rest of your cult - including Johnny Robertson and James Oldfield - put more faith in the name of your church and the words that are on the sign outside of your congregations than you put faith in Christ.

3. Who the heck are you or anyone else to tell anyone that your worship is "correct" and all others are wrong? I mean, not even I would ever assume that my own worship is "right" and that of all others is mistaken. Once again, you are putting faith in your church and its doctrines and not faith in Jesus Christ, Who alone is supposed to be what we have faith in! You are literally "leaning on your own understanding" to a most grievous degree!

4. Even Satan knows scripture and can use it against us. He even tried to use it against Jesus.

5. To use music is neither a sin, or not a sin. It is one of the things that we have liberty in, and to assume that it is a sin is to assume something that is not in scripture at all. As many people have noted over the years, this is just one very odd thing that your cult has latched onto for mere sake of "trying to be different". If you can find a single verse teaching that musical instruments are a sin, I would like to see it... but the simple fact of the matter is, it's nowhere in the Bible.

6. You are not 15 years old.

7. You would be surprised at how much I can easily bench press.

paden said...

ok chris let me examine each part carefully so you will understand.

1.if you want to say the church of Christ in wich we see today in america started in the 19th or 20th century then fine. but that doesnt change anything. i will assume that you would agree that there was the first century church wich Christ established and the apostles led and built up. they gave instruction on how the church is to operate.look when one is added to the church of christ hes not added to a denomiantion but is added to the body wich Christ established.the church never ended only denominations broke off.first was the roman catholic around 600a.d. but the church in the bible has never stopped and any one can be apart of that first centuray church if they do what the bible says the thing is there aernt any denominations doing it

2.in no way because take thee assemble of God. i would say they probably have an acceptable name but in no way what they teach is correct. but take the babtist or luthrens neither of wich are acceptable names and that should tell you something if people call themselfs something thats not in the bible.

3.look this is where people in the denominational world miss it.i base none of my views on feeling or that im just going to believe in jesus and every thing will be okay.and for me to say something is correct or wrong then its not my personal judgemant but the bibles wich i am stating (john 7:24). if all we need in is to believe in jesus christ then there rely isnt a whole lot to the bible is there. we are suppose to let the bible be our guide and obey it.does it not say if you love me keep my comandments. look we are to beilieve and trust in jesus but that alone will not get us to heaven.you say just have faith.the bible teaches the faith that saves is the faith that obeys.

4. yes i agree completly thats why you study to show yourself approved a workmen that needth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of God

5.uh (neither a sin, or not a sin) i think you repeated yourself.but i think your trying to say that it doesnt matter either way.ok this is why instrumental music is sinful.there is no authoritie given by God for it and since we are specificaly told to sing then instrumental music would be an adition. this is where tha argument falls.if you want to use instrumental music then you must have bibical authorite in order to justify. so if you think you can justify it be my guest.

6.why am i not 15 years old.how old do you think i am and why.

7.i bet i would

paden said...

ahhhhhhhhhhh good grief chris why do you have a video game advertisement on your blog with a girl showing off her boobs

please take it off

Anonymous said...

Do the scriptures speak against boob showing? Never mind the hand grenade issue, I think I got bigger problems.

Chris Knight said...

What in the world are you talking about Paden?? I don't see anything like you are referring to.

I do see a Google banner advertisement with three links to "Church of Christ" whatever that means. So I guess you should be thanking me for giving your denomination some publicity.

'Course, anyone who clicks on them is also giving me money in return, so I can't complain either.

paden said...

um every time ive got in today ive see and advertizment for the game evony and it shows a blonde girl with a low cut top and her boobs bulging out on the left of your blog

paden said...

oh to anonoumouse yes the scriptures talk about modest dress and appareal. tell me is it wrong to lust. when you see a hot girl who has big boobs and shes sticking them out there for every one to see does that not cause lust

and chris the church of Christ is the one and only true church and is therefor not a denomination

Katie Gaffner said...

would you please stop discussing and referring to "boobs", it's really offensive and not appropriate when in mixed (gender that is) company and in no way related to anything else that was being discussed.

Chris Knight said...

"and chris the church of Christ is the one and only true church and is therefor not a denomination "

That is the most laugh-inducing thing that I have ever read.

"the one and only true church"?

Prove it, bucko.

You can't. Neither can anyone else.

There is nothing about your alleged "Church of Christ" that bears it out as being any better than any other denomination...

...and that is what it is. You can huff and puff about it "not being a denomination" all you want, but it is a denomination of Christianity... and most likely not even that much.

I will dare say this though: the vast majority of the Baptists, the Methodists etc. that I have met are far more Christ-like than your "Church of Christ".

It doesn't matter by what denominational appellation a Christian is known as being part of. Doesn't bother me one bit that "Methodist" and "Baptist" aren't mentioned in the Bible. Because "By their FRUITS shall ye know them..."!

The fruit of the vast majority of the "denominational" people that you and Johnny Robertson and the rest of your cult hate, is love and peace and humility and longsuffering and everything else that comes with having Christ alive within us.

What is your fruit, Paden? What is the fruit of Robertson, Oldfield and the rest of the cult?

The only fruit they produce is hatred, bitterness, envy, spite, division, and a never-ending stream of outright lies and accusations without basis.

If any rational person seeking Christ had to judge between your twisted cult and a typical Baptist church, that person will choose the Baptist church every time.

Because, Paden, your "Church of Christ" has nothing!

Anonymous said...

AnonouMouse here. I won't say the "B" word again. Paladin started it. It's just so hard to keep up with all these rules and then Chris switched the subject to fruit. I'll study on it some more and maybe figure it out.

AnonouMouse

Anonymous said...

Paden its what Chris said, the 'Church of Christ' isn't a real church or denomination it's just a bunch of assholes WHO STOLE THEIR NAME FROM THE BIBLE. Johnny Robertson was a thief in 1978 and he's an even bigger thief now. You are buying stolen goods from him. You aren't any real Christians. You are as much a real church as Charles Manson is really Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

Chris see if you can remove that ad with the girl. You are causing Paden to sin since he is without doubt unable to turn away from that picture and he is masturbating to it. Chris you are causing Paden to not be faithful! He is going to hell because of an ad on your blog!

paden said...

ok i will start from top to bottom.

katie-if boobs affends you then should i use breasts ecause they mean the same thing and i was only refering to it in the context of wich it was wrong.

chris-this is what bothers me about you.either you dont listen or you just talk befor thinking.look we know for a fact that Jesus established one church.we no there is only one church and one way to heaven.we no the bible only teaches one doctrine. therefor since there are so many differnt so called churches then you can safely say that not all are right or there would be no division.so you must ask yourself wich one folos the bible.now i know for a fact that the church of Christ does.now thats not saying everyone who calls themselves church of Christ is the church of Christ.so you must put every denomination or church to the test to see wich one is right.and i would like for you to prove that its not the one and only true church being as there is no doctrinal error. but tell me where ever you go and ill give you a whole list of things wrong with that denomination.and your comment about you shall know them by your fruits is correct and the way you and alot of other people treat johny shows your fruits.you look at johny and you see someonr trying to teach the bible for what it says and show people they will lose there soul if they do not change because denomiantionalism is false but no you dont like being told your wrong.look son if someone told me i was wrong and it turned out they were wrong.i would still want to hear them out because i care for my soul and desire to do whats right. you on the other hand just get mad.you dont like johny because he stands up for the bible and doesnt back down so you call him a cult wich shows your ignorance because a cult doesnt even operate like johny.you just say that because the truth makes you mad.why do you hold to your false views wich the scriptures do not suport. your soul is not worth losing.so grow up and go study the facts.maybe you should contact johny and just try a bibe study.but you say oh no johny will hurt me.yah right you said you could take me and i think im bigger than he is so why do you need a gun.never the less why feel threatened he doesnt ever attack people physicaly.he only attacks false doctrine and error.

to anonymos-dude that is what makes me sick about denominationalism they just talk instead of letting the bible talk for them.maybe thats why there so off on everything they dont look at what does the bible say.

to 2nd anonymous- shut up dude. why would you say something like that.that is completly inaporopriat.chris you should delete that comment.

Anonymous said...

Someone please find some mugshots of Johnny Robertson and Charles Roark and post them somewhere.

I bet Johnny Robertson or Charles Roark would post anyone's mug shot if they had it.

Chris Knight said...

Paden,

"now i know for a fact that the church of Christ does"

As a former editor of mine at a newspaper was fond of pointing out: "Opinions are like assholes: EVERYONE has one."

You know for a fact that your "Church of Christ" is THE only church in the New Testament, Paden?

And yet you offer no biblical/scriptural evidence of this.

Hilarious!

Anonymous said...

Johnny Robertson was on the phone with Charles Roark talking about the underaged girls dancing in church and he could see panties. He said they were showing as much as you could see in any kiddie porn shop. Wonder how he would know that. It is my understanding that video of the girls was aired on another TV station and it seems no one else saw panties except John Boy.

Johnny was also uncomfortable with some ladies who were employed with a bank he had gone into upset about the way they were dressed. He said his wife didn't like it either. Maybe she should keep him home to protect him. Maybe the banks should put up signs.

During that phone conversation Charles Roark commented to him perverts were in church.

paden said...

hey chris your hilarious to call yourself a bible theologian and even argue that there is one church.you want scripture then here you go.ill also post it on here being as you probably wont go read it anyway.

Ephesians 5:23

23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

notice the church is singular in form

ephesians 1:22-23

22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling

Romans 16:16
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

this is denominationalism

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

this proves babtism and it purpose

Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

ill let you comment on this first and by the way you never even attempted to justify instrumental music

Chris Knight said...

In the words of Darth Vader, this will be "All too easy..."

"Ephesians 5:23

23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

notice the church is singular in form"


My response:
The church is the entire body of believers throughout time.

"Romans 16:16
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you."


My response:
Your own "Church of Christ" doesn't even salute one another with a holy kiss. So you are violating a scriptural command. Who are YOU then to tell others that they are wrong when you merely perceive, with no scriptural basis, that they are violating a supposed "command"?

Regarding baptism:
If there is a baptism that saves, it is that of the Holy Spirit. I've never seen it found anywhere, and I have looked for it, that water baptism is required for salvation. That's just something your own cult made up and tries to enforce (and it's not the first either).

And regarding "you never even attempted to justify instrumental music"

I've never seen any explicit prohibition against it. Doesn't really matter to me whether instruments are used or not. It's not an issue pertaining to salvation or scriptural obedience.

Paden, I actually feel pretty sorry for you, as well as everyone else under the spell of Johnny Robertson and hyper-legalism.

You are stuck at a spiritual dead end. You are not growing in Christ. Instead you've been deluded into thinking you have to stay where you are, and not grow and change. You aren't letting Him change you like unto Him.

So I have to ask: are you really spiritually alive at all?

paden said...

ill start with your question am i spiritualy alive. well im not exactly sure what your asking please define a little bit so i know exactly what your asking.i dont want to answere you and that not be what your asking.now to your comments

you said "The church is the entire body of believers throughout time."

i say prove it

go to the 2nd chapter of acts and it teaches in order to get into the body one must be saved.

prove that is a specific command and not a general like Jesus washing the apostles feet.i dont think you would argue that we are commanded to wash peoples feet but rather simple to serve in whatever way we choose.

if there is a babtism that saves it is the holy spirit babtism.yes thank you chris you have submited to babtism. you agree with me.you just dont realize it.there arent 2 differnt babtisms but one. acts 2:38 shows this that water babtism is when you recieve the gift os the holy spirit wich is salvation.and if you looked you didnt look hard because 1peter says it saves you.

you dont see anything wrong with instrumental music.rely.well do you see anything with playing a game of baseball during worship on sunday morning.or how about puting a little penut buttter and jelly on the lords supper.it is the same way with instrumental music.it is an addition in wich we have no athoritie.it is a differnt kind of music wich God did not authorize.it is an addition to Gods word wich is forbiden.we are not to add to or take away revalation 22:18-19.

Chris Knight said...

Why aren't you greeting each other with the holy kiss, Paden? Why are you disobedient?

Why are you jeopardizing your salvation like that?

See? You are just as guilty of ignoring scripture as anyone else that you accuse of doing so. If that alone doesn't make you "denominational" then I don't know what does.

But like any other cult member, you will no doubt ignore this and disassociate your mind from ever considering it.

Anonymous said...

Hey Chris if Robertson and Oldfield give each other the holy kiss on TV live that would convince me to be baptized into the church of Christ. Think they will do it?????

paden said...

im curious as to why you think holy kiss is a physical kiss and to you chris as to why you never respond to all i say and just one thiing. why dont you prove to me a holy kiss is a physical kiss and isnt an act of greeting. and if you accuse us of not doing it then you are as guilty as well.but you wont do it either. why not. your argument holds no water.to make it say we are to touch lips with one another would also insinuate homosexuality.are you trying to make the bible contradict its self.when are you ever going to use some common sense

Chris Knight said...

"im curious as to why you think holy kiss is a physical kiss"

By the very same token: We have no idea at all that the "baptism" that your cult demands is supposed to be a physical water baptism either.

You lose. Again.

paden said...

a physical water babtism are you joking.again chris please in order for you to understand somethings you have to think.the holy kiss is the same as the washing of the disiples feet.now babtism is differnt were given example of people going down into the water abd we are told to be babtized specificaly for a result and we are told what it results in and that is salavtion and remision of sins.

and in your own words

you lose again

and i havent lost yet

Chris Knight said...

Paden, are you sincerely trying to tell us that the Bible didn't give us PLENTY enough of examples of kissing that you don't know what "kiss" means?!?

*jaw hits floor*

I don't know what planet you people have dropped in off of, but you are definitely not on any wavelength that I've ever experienced in a rational world.

paden said...

your saying the bible talks about kissing so it means we should kiss each other. where does the bible talk about kissing and why dont you folo this since you say its a command and why cant it simply show greeting one another,i cant belive you would argue that we are wrong and that evryone should greet each other with kissing.

if you affirm this this chris then you are a

1.hypocrite

2.supporting homosexuality
(do you honestly think this is saying we guy shoud greet a guy with a kiss)

chris why cant this just mean to greet each other

Chris Knight said...

The "holy kiss" is a command, or at least it is just as much as you and your cult insist that baptism is a command, that no musical instruments is a command, etc.

Once again you are "picking and choosing" what you wish to follow from the Bible.

And yet you still insist on condemning others for the same thing?

Paden, trust me: you do not have just a plank in your eye. You have the whole bloomin' sawmill.

paden said...

look im not denying its a command thats not the argument.the argument is whether it is simply a command to greet or to physicaly kiss and if you would like to take the potion of physical kiss then you are wrong too.but why dont you just reasearch and figure it out on your own.it is a comand to greet not to kiss.just like Jesus washing the apostles feet is not a command to physicaly wash there feet but to serve one another.tell me how babtism is the same.babtism is not just a comand it is essential for salvation.instrumetal music has no authorite and is an addition.

Anonymous said...

loser paden has not made any sense. his mind is like a hamster, running in endless circles.

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